4 ms·

So which is it? Do you want fake civility or sincere rudeness?

teekert 3y ago
The whole point is is that it’s not fake, it feels fake to us, and we (I’m Dutch) are not rude, it feels rude to Americans. We value different things. They are trying to be nice by making compliments, we try to connect by being brutally honest (orthogonal but both positive?). I can tell you our Dutch waiters can learn a thing or two from their US counterparts about service (well maybe it’s also because we hardly tip, but still). Germans are already different by the way, my German colleague was a bit shocked when he had a hair cut and one colleague walked in asking if he tried to do it himself followed by another asking if he fell down the stairs. It’s camaraderie, I guess mostly in younger people. Honestly his hair wasn’t bad at all.
- kazen44 3y ago
  tipping in my opinion is rather rude. as a bussiness, you are basically asking for a handout to make the lives of your waiting staff bearable. In my opinion this mean you should not run a business. Why would i tip someone when they do their job? Should we do this for all jobs? (the same goes for the military in my opinion).
  - teekert 3y ago
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sTSIYzDIk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sTSIYzDIk
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I am (or was) fundamentally against tipping, and I agree that people should simply get paid to do their job. However, I've followed the debates occuring in the USA as a handful of restaurants have experimented with no-tip policies, and I am now really ambivalent about the practice. Several restaurants with owners who sounded very committed to end tipping have returned to it; I've read remarks from many waitstaff who say that they prefer and can make far more that way than they would ever be paid on a salary. I don't think there's a clear answer. My gut still tells me that it's a bad idea, but I do not want to ignore stories from those actually working in and around businesses where this is a thing.
    - greyface- 3y ago
      One frequent criticism of tipping is that its rewards are distributed unevenly among workers, based on traits such as gender and physical appearance. When reading remarks from tipped workers, have you noticed any correlations with these traits?
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        I don't think the remarks have come with enough context to meaningfully comment on that. Having said that, I strongly suspect you're correct about that, though I'd also guess that personality traits are also a very important component, and those are also not handed out "fairly".
twiss 3y ago
The author is a cultural psychologist, and trying to explain that people's emotions should be seen in the context of (and I would say are "relative to") the culture they're from. Someone is only fake if they're more fake than their cultural norms, and someone is only rude if they're more rude than their cultural norms. I would argue this also means people aren't objectively fake or rude, it's all relative, and so neither is objectively better or worse.

The whole point is is that it’s not fake, it feels fake to us, and we (I’m Dutch) are not rude, it feels rude to Americans. We value different things. They are trying to be nice by making compliments, we try to connect by being brutally honest (orthogonal but both positive?). I can tell you our Dutch waiters can learn a thing or two from their US counterparts about service (well maybe it’s also because we hardly tip, but still). Germans are already different by the way, my German colleague was a bit shocked when he had a hair cut and one colleague walked in asking if he tried to do it himself followed by another asking if he fell down the stairs. It’s camaraderie, I guess mostly in younger people. Honestly his hair wasn’t bad at all.

kazen44 3y ago
tipping in my opinion is rather rude. as a bussiness, you are basically asking for a handout to make the lives of your waiting staff bearable. In my opinion this mean you should not run a business. Why would i tip someone when they do their job? Should we do this for all jobs? (the same goes for the military in my opinion).
- teekert 3y ago
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sTSIYzDIk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sTSIYzDIk
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I am (or was) fundamentally against tipping, and I agree that people should simply get paid to do their job. However, I've followed the debates occuring in the USA as a handful of restaurants have experimented with no-tip policies, and I am now really ambivalent about the practice. Several restaurants with owners who sounded very committed to end tipping have returned to it; I've read remarks from many waitstaff who say that they prefer and can make far more that way than they would ever be paid on a salary. I don't think there's a clear answer. My gut still tells me that it's a bad idea, but I do not want to ignore stories from those actually working in and around businesses where this is a thing.
  - greyface- 3y ago
    One frequent criticism of tipping is that its rewards are distributed unevenly among workers, based on traits such as gender and physical appearance. When reading remarks from tipped workers, have you noticed any correlations with these traits?
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      I don't think the remarks have come with enough context to meaningfully comment on that. Having said that, I strongly suspect you're correct about that, though I'd also guess that personality traits are also a very important component, and those are also not handed out "fairly".

twiss 3y ago

The author is a cultural psychologist, and trying to explain that people's emotions should be seen in the context of (and I would say are "relative to") the culture they're from. Someone is only fake if they're more fake than their cultural norms, and someone is only rude if they're more rude than their cultural norms. I would argue this also means people aren't objectively fake or rude, it's all relative, and so neither is objectively better or worse.