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I wonder if the dutch history is why most new yorkers seem to be very direct. There are definitely different regions of America that pull the fake thing more th

I wonder if the dutch history is why most new yorkers seem to be very direct. There are definitely different regions of America that pull the fake thing more than others (one example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_your_heart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_your_heart )

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
It's opportunity cost. New Yorkers making $300,000 feel the twinge of lost time much more acutely than, say, the average Minnesotan making $30,000. Indeed, in most countries, you'll notice the dialect of the capital city of the prominent language contains a lot more clipped and shortened words than the rural dialects tend to. This happens here in Finland - Helsinkians speak a much more abbreviation heavy Finnish than the dairy farmers up in Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, which has sort of the equivalent of Finnish southern drawl.
- mpol 3y ago
  Huh, why is this downvoted? In the Netherlands, efficiency is part of communicaton, especially in cities. In more rural places people connect a bit more and take time for eachother. These are different rules. And yes, sometimes Dutch people are rude because they like to be. Different people, different strokes.
  - xhevahir 3y ago
    I didn't downvote the comment myself, but I do think it's glib and reductionist in a way that purely economic arguments often are. In general I find explanations of this kind of behaviors are often facile rationalizations of things that are mostly non-rational and that are absorbed from one's social environment and then imitated.
  - NoboruWataya 3y ago
    > Huh, why is this downvoted? Because tying it to salary seems pseudo-scentific and rather snobbish (but happy to be corrected if there is solid science backing it). Are rich people generally more direct than poor people within a culture? Not in my experience. The distinction between urban and rural is valid in my experience. But the urban poor tend to be on the same side of this divide as the urban rich. (edit: Just to be clear, I didn't downvote it)
bee_rider 3y ago
People in lots of the Northeast are, of course, known to be a bit brusque or direct, including the non-Dutch areas. I think it’s just that it has been a busy, high population area for a long time (by US standards at least). When you and everyone around you has to do lots of little interactions all day, you show care by keeping things short and efficient. Also “bless your heart” is the dumbest expression in the world. Oh wow look at me I’ve said something that sounds nice, but actually it means something secretly rude, maybe, but only I know how I meant it! That’s just poor communication.
- wenc 3y ago
  These are the stereotypes: (that mostly track my experiences living in different parts of the country) In the northeast, people are kind but not nice. They'll help you out when you have flat tire but may grumble under their breath that you might need to learn how to change your tires yourself. It takes a long time to get to know them, but once you do, they'll take their shirts off their backs for you. In the pacific northwest, people are nice but not kind. They'll be super polite to you but when you ask for help or ask to hang out, they'll snub you. They're mostly homebodies and they already have enough friends, no room for more. In the midwest, people are kind and nice. They'll help you out and they'll invite you to their homes for a meal. But they are somewhat cautious of outsiders. In the south, people mostly just have a nice façade that is skin deep. They'll be nice and friendly to you and talk to you all day, but they may not care that much for you at all. Their friendliness is more about them wanting to feel that they are nice people, and less about them actually caring about you. Many will talk behind your back ("bless your heart" culture). Terms like Seattle Freeze, Minnesota Nice, Southern Hospitality are all overgeneralizations and don't apply to each individual, but nevertheless capture a part of the culture that is at least somewhat true. For instance, a 2008 survey showed WA state ranked 48th out of 50 in trait extraversion. Seattle definitely feels socially different from other places -- it is very palpable. Here's the paper ranking 50 US states on the Five Factor model (Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism and Openness) https://pdodds.w3.uvm.edu/research/papers/others/2008/rentfrow2008a.pdf https://pdodds.w3.uvm.edu/research/papers/others/2008/rentfr...
  - 3y ago
1659447091 3y ago
As someone from "Bless your heart" country, there is nothing fake (or secret) about it. It is used in two context and everyone there knows exactly which one is meant when directed at them or others. A passive aggressive dig, or, a genuine statement of care. However, I can definitely see how people who did not grow up around it may see it as fake or weird or question intent.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > I can definitely see how people who did not grow up around it may see it as fake or weird or question intent. That is the whole point, what words mean changes from culture to culture, punitiveness is relative. In some culture "great" is the neutral word, in other it is "it is ok" is the neutral one etc, so when a culture who feels "great" must mean you like it a lot come to a culture where it is just the normal thing to say they will feel everyone is fake since they say that things are great even though they aren't particularly excited about those things.

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago

It's opportunity cost. New Yorkers making $300,000 feel the twinge of lost time much more acutely than, say, the average Minnesotan making $30,000. Indeed, in most countries, you'll notice the dialect of the capital city of the prominent language contains a lot more clipped and shortened words than the rural dialects tend to. This happens here in Finland - Helsinkians speak a much more abbreviation heavy Finnish than the dairy farmers up in Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, which has sort of the equivalent of Finnish southern drawl.

mpol 3y ago
Huh, why is this downvoted? In the Netherlands, efficiency is part of communicaton, especially in cities. In more rural places people connect a bit more and take time for eachother. These are different rules. And yes, sometimes Dutch people are rude because they like to be. Different people, different strokes.
- xhevahir 3y ago
  I didn't downvote the comment myself, but I do think it's glib and reductionist in a way that purely economic arguments often are. In general I find explanations of this kind of behaviors are often facile rationalizations of things that are mostly non-rational and that are absorbed from one's social environment and then imitated.
- NoboruWataya 3y ago
  > Huh, why is this downvoted? Because tying it to salary seems pseudo-scentific and rather snobbish (but happy to be corrected if there is solid science backing it). Are rich people generally more direct than poor people within a culture? Not in my experience. The distinction between urban and rural is valid in my experience. But the urban poor tend to be on the same side of this divide as the urban rich. (edit: Just to be clear, I didn't downvote it)

bee_rider 3y ago

People in lots of the Northeast are, of course, known to be a bit brusque or direct, including the non-Dutch areas. I think it’s just that it has been a busy, high population area for a long time (by US standards at least). When you and everyone around you has to do lots of little interactions all day, you show care by keeping things short and efficient. Also “bless your heart” is the dumbest expression in the world. Oh wow look at me I’ve said something that sounds nice, but actually it means something secretly rude, maybe, but only I know how I meant it! That’s just poor communication.

wenc 3y ago
These are the stereotypes: (that mostly track my experiences living in different parts of the country) In the northeast, people are kind but not nice. They'll help you out when you have flat tire but may grumble under their breath that you might need to learn how to change your tires yourself. It takes a long time to get to know them, but once you do, they'll take their shirts off their backs for you. In the pacific northwest, people are nice but not kind. They'll be super polite to you but when you ask for help or ask to hang out, they'll snub you. They're mostly homebodies and they already have enough friends, no room for more. In the midwest, people are kind and nice. They'll help you out and they'll invite you to their homes for a meal. But they are somewhat cautious of outsiders. In the south, people mostly just have a nice façade that is skin deep. They'll be nice and friendly to you and talk to you all day, but they may not care that much for you at all. Their friendliness is more about them wanting to feel that they are nice people, and less about them actually caring about you. Many will talk behind your back ("bless your heart" culture). Terms like Seattle Freeze, Minnesota Nice, Southern Hospitality are all overgeneralizations and don't apply to each individual, but nevertheless capture a part of the culture that is at least somewhat true. For instance, a 2008 survey showed WA state ranked 48th out of 50 in trait extraversion. Seattle definitely feels socially different from other places -- it is very palpable. Here's the paper ranking 50 US states on the Five Factor model (Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism and Openness) https://pdodds.w3.uvm.edu/research/papers/others/2008/rentfrow2008a.pdf https://pdodds.w3.uvm.edu/research/papers/others/2008/rentfr...
- 3y ago

1659447091 3y ago

As someone from "Bless your heart" country, there is nothing fake (or secret) about it. It is used in two context and everyone there knows exactly which one is meant when directed at them or others. A passive aggressive dig, or, a genuine statement of care. However, I can definitely see how people who did not grow up around it may see it as fake or weird or question intent.

Jensson 3y ago
> I can definitely see how people who did not grow up around it may see it as fake or weird or question intent. That is the whole point, what words mean changes from culture to culture, punitiveness is relative. In some culture "great" is the neutral word, in other it is "it is ok" is the neutral one etc, so when a culture who feels "great" must mean you like it a lot come to a culture where it is just the normal thing to say they will feel everyone is fake since they say that things are great even though they aren't particularly excited about those things.