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Never would have happened if instead users relied on Briar/Jami/Session/Tox on a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS. This is an important lesson, take it to heart

Never would have happened if instead users relied on Briar/Jami/Session/Tox on a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS. This is an important lesson, take it to heart!

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Thus completely missing the point of this product’s entire existence and value proposition. This is not helpful and bordering on snarky. ‘Take note’ that people are well aware of the existence of other messaging services. They don’t want them. They want iMessage. The kid saying that they’re using “Tox on a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS” is sitting by themselves during recess whether you like it or not.
- noman-land 3y ago
  They don't want iMessage. They want what their friends have. If their friends used something else they would use something else.
  - ultrarunner 3y ago
    Eh, many of my friends have WhatsApp, and I don't really like it. Almost all of them "have" Facebook messenger, but again, no one wants to use it. Maybe I'm biased because it's true for me, but I don't really buy this "nothing's special about iMessage" claim. Which sucks, because Apple's approach here (while not unexpected) is very disappointing.
- rustcleaner 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    In all honesty, this kind of discourse is insulting to the target audience, and not going to win over anyone to your cause. If you call the people you are trying to convince "idiots, rubes, and otherwise "consumer"-personality types" then they stop listening after that point. Which is probably fortunate since you called for a "digital 9/11". Call me crazy, but I don't want a repeat of an event where thousands of people died, leading to two wars where hundreds of thousands or millions died just so I can get more open computing. You know who hasn't called me an idiot or a rube? The makers of iMessage. In fact, they offer free lessons on how their products can be used to make my life better. I can buy grandma an iPad, and for no extra charge, they will spend hours with her to get her set up and seamlessly sending me messages. They won't talk down to her, they won't lecture her in internet slang, they won't compare her to moths drawn to a bug zapper for using an alternative. I-devices are expensive, sure, and there is a mild lock-in effect with iMessage/cloud, but most people are pretty happy to be locked in. If iMessage goes away, I still buy an iPhone and use a Mac, because the hardware works for me. Truth be told you aren't using mimetic warfare to plant ideas (or at least not the ideas you think you are planting). You are associating your cause with superior attitudes, insults, and unfriendliness.
    - rustcleaner 3y ago
      >You are associating your cause with superior attitudes, insults, and unfriendliness. Pent up frustration at the hidden injustice of the whole thing and the apathy I am constantly met with; sue me. >You know who hasn't called me an idiot or a rube? The makers of iMessage. Their marketing methods are way more pernicious, but one example among myriad: https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/comments/b6w9iu/oh_youre_a_green_text/ https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/comments/b6w9iu/oh... Social shame is very powerful. (addendum: my google searches for green vs blue bubble today seemed to filter examples like there's a blanket tossed on it, duckduckgo showed examples more readily.)
      - redserk 3y ago
        Are you implying that by iMessage being available on Android will solve the ridiculous association filtering some people engage in? It's a common practice. It ranges from sports teams, to geography (living on the other side of highways/rivers), to even OSes -- like the weird attitude some Linux folks have about Windows not being a proper OS to develop in.
    - rustcleaner 3y ago
      Also I get to be mad. I get to show that frustration. Other people who feel as I do see me get mad and maybe they get mad too. Maybe I flutter my wings and some storm clouds appear over Redmond down the line.
      - danaris 3y ago
        ...What does Microsoft's headquarters have to do with this?
      - dghlsakjg 3y ago
        I wasn't saying you can't be mad. I was saying that getting mad at people won't convince them that you have a point. I've never heard of Briar. But now my only interaction with it is with someone who wants a "digital 9/11" and hopes that a quarter of our digital systems get hacked by an adversarial state. No offense, but I don't want to be part of a communications network with users that advocate extremism and terrorism as a conversion method. Edit: I just looked into Briar, and it is ironically, only available on certain platforms. If you have an iPhone you cannot use it. How is this any better?

Never would have happened if instead users relied on Briar/Jami/Session/Tox on a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS. This is an important lesson, take it to heart!

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

Thus completely missing the point of this product’s entire existence and value proposition. This is not helpful and bordering on snarky. ‘Take note’ that people are well aware of the existence of other messaging services. They don’t want them. They want iMessage. The kid saying that they’re using “Tox on a Google Pixel running GrapheneOS” is sitting by themselves during recess whether you like it or not.

noman-land 3y ago
They don't want iMessage. They want what their friends have. If their friends used something else they would use something else.
- ultrarunner 3y ago
  Eh, many of my friends have WhatsApp, and I don't really like it. Almost all of them "have" Facebook messenger, but again, no one wants to use it. Maybe I'm biased because it's true for me, but I don't really buy this "nothing's special about iMessage" claim. Which sucks, because Apple's approach here (while not unexpected) is very disappointing.
rustcleaner 3y ago
[flagged]
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  In all honesty, this kind of discourse is insulting to the target audience, and not going to win over anyone to your cause. If you call the people you are trying to convince "idiots, rubes, and otherwise "consumer"-personality types" then they stop listening after that point. Which is probably fortunate since you called for a "digital 9/11". Call me crazy, but I don't want a repeat of an event where thousands of people died, leading to two wars where hundreds of thousands or millions died just so I can get more open computing. You know who hasn't called me an idiot or a rube? The makers of iMessage. In fact, they offer free lessons on how their products can be used to make my life better. I can buy grandma an iPad, and for no extra charge, they will spend hours with her to get her set up and seamlessly sending me messages. They won't talk down to her, they won't lecture her in internet slang, they won't compare her to moths drawn to a bug zapper for using an alternative. I-devices are expensive, sure, and there is a mild lock-in effect with iMessage/cloud, but most people are pretty happy to be locked in. If iMessage goes away, I still buy an iPhone and use a Mac, because the hardware works for me. Truth be told you aren't using mimetic warfare to plant ideas (or at least not the ideas you think you are planting). You are associating your cause with superior attitudes, insults, and unfriendliness.
  - rustcleaner 3y ago
    >You are associating your cause with superior attitudes, insults, and unfriendliness. Pent up frustration at the hidden injustice of the whole thing and the apathy I am constantly met with; sue me. >You know who hasn't called me an idiot or a rube? The makers of iMessage. Their marketing methods are way more pernicious, but one example among myriad: https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/comments/b6w9iu/oh_youre_a_green_text/ https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/comments/b6w9iu/oh... Social shame is very powerful. (addendum: my google searches for green vs blue bubble today seemed to filter examples like there's a blanket tossed on it, duckduckgo showed examples more readily.)
    - redserk 3y ago
      Are you implying that by iMessage being available on Android will solve the ridiculous association filtering some people engage in? It's a common practice. It ranges from sports teams, to geography (living on the other side of highways/rivers), to even OSes -- like the weird attitude some Linux folks have about Windows not being a proper OS to develop in.
  - rustcleaner 3y ago
    Also I get to be mad. I get to show that frustration. Other people who feel as I do see me get mad and maybe they get mad too. Maybe I flutter my wings and some storm clouds appear over Redmond down the line.
    - danaris 3y ago
      ...What does Microsoft's headquarters have to do with this?
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      I wasn't saying you can't be mad. I was saying that getting mad at people won't convince them that you have a point. I've never heard of Briar. But now my only interaction with it is with someone who wants a "digital 9/11" and hopes that a quarter of our digital systems get hacked by an adversarial state. No offense, but I don't want to be part of a communications network with users that advocate extremism and terrorism as a conversion method. Edit: I just looked into Briar, and it is ironically, only available on certain platforms. If you have an iPhone you cannot use it. How is this any better?