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>, there is nothing that stops Apple from throwing up a ton of warnings for apps that didn't come from their App Store. [...] Pop a warning every single time it

by jasode 3y ago

>, there is nothing that stops Apple from throwing up a ton of warnings for apps that didn't come from their App Store. [...] Pop a warning every single time it accesses contacts or location, don't allow third party apps outside the App Store to be granted ongoing permissions to anything, etc. But then why wouldn't EU later consider those high-friction "warnings" and security firewalls to be anti-competitive because it doesn't let 3rd-party apps be on equal footing as Apple's Official App Store? Is there precedence from previous rulings analogous to this Apple situation to predict what EU would pursue depending on how Apple follows the "letter of the law" instead of the "spirit of the law"?

bluish29 3y ago
> This app came from a third party, it can download all your private information and has not been reviewed by Apple Why would you consider it "anticompetitive"? I think Apple has a good claim that this is a factual statement that is used as a security warning as a core OS feature. Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option, don't remember exactly when you get these warnings) and EU did not consider it "anti-competitive" (at least yet).
- abhibeckert 3y ago
  > I think Apple has a good claim that this is a factual statement that is used as a security warning I would hope that the technical protections protecting user data apply to all apps and not just apps that come from Apple's store. If an app from the store wants to access your contacts or your location, the user has to approve it. Should be exactly the same with side loaded apps. Vender lock in such as a core operating system feature that can only be accessed with Apple approved apps would be blatant anti-competitive behaviour. > Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option, don't remember exactly when you get these warnings) and EU did not consider it "anti-competitive" (at least yet). The EU and the USA have both found those warnings to be anti-competitive. In the EU's case, they have the same deadline as Apple to fix it. In the USA, Google was recently fined several hundred million dollars (and will also be required to change the alerts). I'm sure there will be some warnings, but it they will have to be reasonable - such as "[Name] is an app you downloaded from the internet. Are you sure you want to open it? Safari downloaded this app today from [Website URL]" - that's the message you get right now side-loading an app on a Mac, I think it would be hard for Apple to justify anything more "scary" than that.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    > If an app from the store wants to access your contacts or your location, the user has to approve it. Should be exactly the same with side loaded apps. What I'm saying is that it already happens for apps from the App Store, where it asks you to allow access to contacts for example. But one of your choices is "always allow". I'm saying for third party store apps, they remove the "always allow" option. Make you approve it every time, to remind you that it's happening.
    - kelthuzad 3y ago
      >I'm saying for third party store apps, they remove the "always allow" option. I do not know EU's Digital Markets Act Laws in detail but I can't imagine that such discrimination would not be in breach of them. I would frankly see that as an unacceptable and unfair measure. I want to use my iPhone like my Mac without artificial annoyances.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  To maintain a semblance of impartiality, they would need to add a warning to their own apps to the effect of, > this app came from a first party, it can download all your private information and has not been reviewed by a third party
- perryizgr8 3y ago
  > Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option I have never seen such a warning. Even if it exists it must be very non-intrusive, otherwise I would remember it.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    It used to be a global setting with a bit of a lecture on the risks, nothing serious. Now it's related to a permission per app, you need to give permission for each app to install others. Eg the browser with which you downloaded an APK. Or the files app you used to open it. Or F-Droid's store app. The lecture is gone through. But you still have to grant it explicitly.

by jasode 3y ago

bluish29 3y ago

> This app came from a third party, it can download all your private information and has not been reviewed by Apple Why would you consider it "anticompetitive"? I think Apple has a good claim that this is a factual statement that is used as a security warning as a core OS feature. Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option, don't remember exactly when you get these warnings) and EU did not consider it "anti-competitive" (at least yet).

abhibeckert 3y ago
> I think Apple has a good claim that this is a factual statement that is used as a security warning I would hope that the technical protections protecting user data apply to all apps and not just apps that come from Apple's store. If an app from the store wants to access your contacts or your location, the user has to approve it. Should be exactly the same with side loaded apps. Vender lock in such as a core operating system feature that can only be accessed with Apple approved apps would be blatant anti-competitive behaviour. > Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option, don't remember exactly when you get these warnings) and EU did not consider it "anti-competitive" (at least yet). The EU and the USA have both found those warnings to be anti-competitive. In the EU's case, they have the same deadline as Apple to fix it. In the USA, Google was recently fined several hundred million dollars (and will also be required to change the alerts). I'm sure there will be some warnings, but it they will have to be reasonable - such as "[Name] is an app you downloaded from the internet. Are you sure you want to open it? Safari downloaded this app today from [Website URL]" - that's the message you get right now side-loading an app on a Mac, I think it would be hard for Apple to justify anything more "scary" than that.
- jedberg 3y ago
  > If an app from the store wants to access your contacts or your location, the user has to approve it. Should be exactly the same with side loaded apps. What I'm saying is that it already happens for apps from the App Store, where it asks you to allow access to contacts for example. But one of your choices is "always allow". I'm saying for third party store apps, they remove the "always allow" option. Make you approve it every time, to remind you that it's happening.
  - kelthuzad 3y ago
    >I'm saying for third party store apps, they remove the "always allow" option. I do not know EU's Digital Markets Act Laws in detail but I can't imagine that such discrimination would not be in breach of them. I would frankly see that as an unacceptable and unfair measure. I want to use my iPhone like my Mac without artificial annoyances.
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
To maintain a semblance of impartiality, they would need to add a warning to their own apps to the effect of, > this app came from a first party, it can download all your private information and has not been reviewed by a third party
perryizgr8 3y ago
> Google have something like this when you sideload (or allow sideloading option I have never seen such a warning. Even if it exists it must be very non-intrusive, otherwise I would remember it.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It used to be a global setting with a bit of a lecture on the risks, nothing serious. Now it's related to a permission per app, you need to give permission for each app to install others. Eg the browser with which you downloaded an APK. Or the files app you used to open it. Or F-Droid's store app. The lecture is gone through. But you still have to grant it explicitly.