6 ms·

You are apparently in the UK, but the job market in the U.S. has similarly been very spooky lately. I was laid off and have received almost no interviews outsid

by bmitc 3y ago

You are apparently in the UK, but the job market in the U.S. has similarly been very spooky lately. I was laid off and have received almost no interviews outside of a single previous employer. My resume was flat out rejected, even from places that I had previously worked or was made an offer from as little as a year or two ago. It was really weird. As in, previous contacts would not even reply to emails or LinkedIn messages. I felt the same thing, thinking things like if I insulted someone's dog or something. I even got contacted by a former company asking if I'd be interested in coming back, and then when I responded, they responded with a flat "we don't see a fit". Just purely bizarre. I am finding that more and more people are looking for extremely specific and narrow experience. Like, if you haven't used <x> technology and worked in <y> domain, they don't want to even speak to you. They'd almost rather higher a new grad who happened to work in <x> than someone with experience in many languages and domains. It's really weird. I've been thinking a lot about how to make my own path, because it's exhausting trying to apply and work for myopic places.

itmtn 3y ago
Been in those shoes before. Had 3 offers, chose 1 but denied 2 while trying to say "let's stay in touch" because you never know. That time came after 2 years - got canned with many others due to financial reasons, got back in touch with company that had sent me an offer previously and, damn, if it didn't feel like those dry responses you get from your ex after dropping that "wyd?" texts at late evening - simply rejected with no seeming continuation for this potential business relationship. All in all, not a great time to lose a job. Been digging for about last 4 months and there's nothing really out there - a lot of rejections for fitting jobs and only getting interviews from places that need senior level coders for chump change. Some even have the nerve to pay too little and step back from the mutual agreement of not needing for me to come to office.
brianwawok 3y ago
If there is a surplus of talent, a company would rather hire someone who has background in the current stack and can jump right in. If there is a lack of talent, companies hire whatever is even close and trains the new stuff. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
- bmitc 3y ago
  It is very short term thinking, which doesn't seem straightforward to me.
  - erulabs 3y ago
    Why is it short term? Are employees less familiar with the technology they’re using day to day more likely to stick around? I’d guess the opposite?
    - mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
      It kinda depends on the candidate. Someone who already has experience may not stick around long because they aren't learning new skills, where as someone who isn't familiar with a particular technology will have added satisfaction and reason to stay from developing mastery of a new tech
    - bmitc 3y ago
      It's short term because you will filter out intelligent and experienced candidates simply because they have happened to not use <x> extensively in their career. It's short term because such a candidate will have used a plethora of other things and would likely come in with a fresh perspective given their experience. It just might take them slightly longer to ramp up on the language and its associated tooling and ecosystem.
      - brianwawok 3y ago
        I live in a small town. When I hired a developer locally, I basically posted it as: * 2-3 years in Vue, React, Angular, or any modern JS framework When I posted it for remote only I advertised * 2-3 years of Vue experience There are _SO_ many applicants for a remote job (1000s), that I can be picky. So I will cut to the 500 that have the language I want, vs a slog through 5,000 that can maybe someday do what I want. When you run a business and hire, you can totally do it different.
adregan 3y ago
I was looking for 8 months until I found something. Most of the time, I wasn’t even making it to a tech screen. Similar to you, I chatted to companies who were looking for concrete experience doing exactly the one thing they were currently working through. And the rug was pulled out from underneath me a few times. It’s brutal out there, and it will fill anyone with self doubt. The only positive thing I can say is that interviewing for my new role felt normal and nice—the way I thought it’d be. That at least made me feel a lot better about myself.
sheepscreek 3y ago
It’s not you. Nobody is hiring. The ones that say so are in no rush. Executives are pushing hard on doing more with less and improving profitability. Things should loosen up when the Fed and EU announce rate cuts this year. Hang on. I know this isn’t the answer you were hoping to hear. Perhaps try your luck with contracting? There is more openness to that in this climate (lower threshold to commitment).
- dybourqu 3y ago
  We really need to stop assuming there's going to be rate cuts in 2024, especially from a trying to get a tech job perspective.Rate cuts aren't going to happen unless there's a weak economy Inflation numbers came in hotter than expected this week. Consumer sentiment is improving. Employment is still high. Investment in manufacturing was massive in 2023. these same people predicting rate cuts were the sames ones predicting a recession in 2023. The economy is weird now.
  - jamil7 3y ago
    > The economy is weird now. Or the economy was weird before and is recovering now.
- bmitc 3y ago
  > It’s not you. Nobody is hiring. Such a simple statement, but it does help. Thanks. :)
foofie 3y ago
> I am finding that more and more people are looking for extremely specific and narrow experience. Like, if you haven't used <x> technology and worked in <y> domain, they don't want to even speak to you. That was my experience as well. If a candidate doesn't claim to have over 5 years of experience in a specific tech stack then recruiters just downrank of completely eliminate them from their short list of candidates. And I won't even start on the hard skills screening process. I believe this is a reflection of low-level HR technicians with zero tech background taking over the hiring process of some companies. Their work is to filter out unsuited candidates and present a short list of best fits. Thus they follow a pattern matching strategy with the candidate's CV, otherwise they have no way to tell if someone is even competent.
- mjenkins65 3y ago
  I am finding a bit of a different outlook. I have had several people let me know that if I didn't have experience in their particular technology within the last 2 years, they were not interested in my experiance.
sage76 3y ago
> I am finding that more and more people are looking for extremely specific and narrow experience. Like, if you haven't used <x> technology and worked in <y> domain, they don't want to even speak to you. They'd almost rather higher a new grad who happened to work in <x> than someone with experience in many languages and domains. It's really weird. I've been thinking a lot about how to make my own path, because it's exhausting trying to apply and work for myopic places. Exactly why I left this industry permanently.
- danjac 3y ago
  This is definitely why I am thinking about leaving the industry, if and when current gig ends. Even with a resume tailored exactly to requirements, crickets. Some copium going around - "it's just interest rates", "thinks will pick up soon". Nope. This is what the end of the industry looks like, at least for a great many developers.
- StaircaseWit 3y ago
  What did you move to?
  - sage76 3y ago
    Nothing yet. Just studying things that interest me. But I have to figure out something in the near future. It just can't be software development.
    - a2code 3y ago
      What interests?
      - sage76 3y ago
        Maths stuff. Pattern recognition and machine learning by Bishop.
- bmitc 3y ago
  I have definitely thought about it. It wasn't my "dream", if there's such a thing any more when it comes to careers, and I didn't even study it in school. I always say I fell into software, which is true. But I have also considered doing things with software that make me happy in a way that I could make a living from it. I haven't come across something yet, but I have a few ideas in mind that could work with a lot of initial work.

by bmitc 3y ago

itmtn 3y ago

Been in those shoes before. Had 3 offers, chose 1 but denied 2 while trying to say "let's stay in touch" because you never know. That time came after 2 years - got canned with many others due to financial reasons, got back in touch with company that had sent me an offer previously and, damn, if it didn't feel like those dry responses you get from your ex after dropping that "wyd?" texts at late evening - simply rejected with no seeming continuation for this potential business relationship. All in all, not a great time to lose a job. Been digging for about last 4 months and there's nothing really out there - a lot of rejections for fitting jobs and only getting interviews from places that need senior level coders for chump change. Some even have the nerve to pay too little and step back from the mutual agreement of not needing for me to come to office.

brianwawok 3y ago

If there is a surplus of talent, a company would rather hire someone who has background in the current stack and can jump right in. If there is a lack of talent, companies hire whatever is even close and trains the new stuff. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

bmitc 3y ago
It is very short term thinking, which doesn't seem straightforward to me.
- erulabs 3y ago
  Why is it short term? Are employees less familiar with the technology they’re using day to day more likely to stick around? I’d guess the opposite?
  - mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
    It kinda depends on the candidate. Someone who already has experience may not stick around long because they aren't learning new skills, where as someone who isn't familiar with a particular technology will have added satisfaction and reason to stay from developing mastery of a new tech
  - bmitc 3y ago
    It's short term because you will filter out intelligent and experienced candidates simply because they have happened to not use <x> extensively in their career. It's short term because such a candidate will have used a plethora of other things and would likely come in with a fresh perspective given their experience. It just might take them slightly longer to ramp up on the language and its associated tooling and ecosystem.
    - brianwawok 3y ago
      I live in a small town. When I hired a developer locally, I basically posted it as: * 2-3 years in Vue, React, Angular, or any modern JS framework When I posted it for remote only I advertised * 2-3 years of Vue experience There are _SO_ many applicants for a remote job (1000s), that I can be picky. So I will cut to the 500 that have the language I want, vs a slog through 5,000 that can maybe someday do what I want. When you run a business and hire, you can totally do it different.

adregan 3y ago

I was looking for 8 months until I found something. Most of the time, I wasn’t even making it to a tech screen. Similar to you, I chatted to companies who were looking for concrete experience doing exactly the one thing they were currently working through. And the rug was pulled out from underneath me a few times. It’s brutal out there, and it will fill anyone with self doubt. The only positive thing I can say is that interviewing for my new role felt normal and nice—the way I thought it’d be. That at least made me feel a lot better about myself.

sheepscreek 3y ago

It’s not you. Nobody is hiring. The ones that say so are in no rush. Executives are pushing hard on doing more with less and improving profitability. Things should loosen up when the Fed and EU announce rate cuts this year. Hang on. I know this isn’t the answer you were hoping to hear. Perhaps try your luck with contracting? There is more openness to that in this climate (lower threshold to commitment).

dybourqu 3y ago
We really need to stop assuming there's going to be rate cuts in 2024, especially from a trying to get a tech job perspective.Rate cuts aren't going to happen unless there's a weak economy Inflation numbers came in hotter than expected this week. Consumer sentiment is improving. Employment is still high. Investment in manufacturing was massive in 2023. these same people predicting rate cuts were the sames ones predicting a recession in 2023. The economy is weird now.
- jamil7 3y ago
  > The economy is weird now. Or the economy was weird before and is recovering now.
bmitc 3y ago
> It’s not you. Nobody is hiring. Such a simple statement, but it does help. Thanks. :)

foofie 3y ago

> I am finding that more and more people are looking for extremely specific and narrow experience. Like, if you haven't used <x> technology and worked in <y> domain, they don't want to even speak to you. That was my experience as well. If a candidate doesn't claim to have over 5 years of experience in a specific tech stack then recruiters just downrank of completely eliminate them from their short list of candidates. And I won't even start on the hard skills screening process. I believe this is a reflection of low-level HR technicians with zero tech background taking over the hiring process of some companies. Their work is to filter out unsuited candidates and present a short list of best fits. Thus they follow a pattern matching strategy with the candidate's CV, otherwise they have no way to tell if someone is even competent.

mjenkins65 3y ago
I am finding a bit of a different outlook. I have had several people let me know that if I didn't have experience in their particular technology within the last 2 years, they were not interested in my experiance.

sage76 3y ago

> I am finding that more and more people are looking for extremely specific and narrow experience. Like, if you haven't used <x> technology and worked in <y> domain, they don't want to even speak to you. They'd almost rather higher a new grad who happened to work in <x> than someone with experience in many languages and domains. It's really weird. I've been thinking a lot about how to make my own path, because it's exhausting trying to apply and work for myopic places. Exactly why I left this industry permanently.

danjac 3y ago
This is definitely why I am thinking about leaving the industry, if and when current gig ends. Even with a resume tailored exactly to requirements, crickets. Some copium going around - "it's just interest rates", "thinks will pick up soon". Nope. This is what the end of the industry looks like, at least for a great many developers.
StaircaseWit 3y ago
What did you move to?
- sage76 3y ago
  Nothing yet. Just studying things that interest me. But I have to figure out something in the near future. It just can't be software development.
  - a2code 3y ago
    What interests?
    - sage76 3y ago
      Maths stuff. Pattern recognition and machine learning by Bishop.
bmitc 3y ago
I have definitely thought about it. It wasn't my "dream", if there's such a thing any more when it comes to careers, and I didn't even study it in school. I always say I fell into software, which is true. But I have also considered doing things with software that make me happy in a way that I could make a living from it. I haven't come across something yet, but I have a few ideas in mind that could work with a lot of initial work.