5 ms·

Yeah, I think the website the author linked to has old data. It's 3x that in California.

by jms703 3y ago

kube-system 3y ago
It is 26.72 cents per kwh as of the latest official numbers which are from October 2023. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
- riku_iki 3y ago
  Not clear who are those "ultimate customers". Also, in case of server hardware, it is excessive over basic tier electricity consumption, so it will hit those 50c/kwh.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > Not clear who are those "ultimate customers". The first column is residential customers.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      It is residential "ultimate" customers. My current bill for initial tier is: 42c/kwh delivery + 15c/kwh generation, and even higher over initial consumption. I guess I am not "ultimate" customer.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        'ultimate customer' means the customer using the power, which you are. The reason you don't pay the price listed on that page is because you are only one customer. You are not the average customer.
        riku_iki 3y ago
        The fact that I live in the center of densely populated area and serviced by major provider who also holds monopoly, makes me think there is a chance that table's numbers are just not what you think. They may include just generation cost, and not delivery, or there is something about "ultimate customer" definition. Also, there were several hikes since Oct in my understanding.
        kube-system 3y ago
        I read form EIA-861, which is where the data comes from. Looks like sales to "ultimate customers" means it excludes electricity that was not sold, electricity that was sold to resellers, energy lost, etc. The form also collects information about revenue from delivery "and other related charges" 42c/kwh delivery sounds insane. I couldn't find much data about average delivery rates, but I plugged in a few counties here and it looks like many areas have delivery rates significantly lower than that: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > I plugged in a few counties here and it looks like many areas have delivery rates significantly lower than that: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison That page says numbers are year old, I entered my zip there and it says delivery is 20c/kwh for me. If you don't know the story: PG&E is delivery monopolist in CA, with exception of some places with local powerplants. It was found guilty in causing wildfires, lost in court and need to pay $XXB damages, which it now shifts to customers through multiple rate hikes in 2023 and more coming in 2024. 42c/kwh is initial tier cost, whatever is over limit will be charged at 50c/kwh for just delivery.

Yeah, I think the website the author linked to has old data. It's 3x that in California.

by jms703 3y ago

Yeah, I think the website the author linked to has old data. It's 3x that in California.

It is 26.72 cents per kwh as of the latest official numbers which are from October 2023. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

riku_iki 3y ago
Not clear who are those "ultimate customers". Also, in case of server hardware, it is excessive over basic tier electricity consumption, so it will hit those 50c/kwh.
- kube-system 3y ago
  > Not clear who are those "ultimate customers". The first column is residential customers.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    It is residential "ultimate" customers. My current bill for initial tier is: 42c/kwh delivery + 15c/kwh generation, and even higher over initial consumption. I guess I am not "ultimate" customer.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      'ultimate customer' means the customer using the power, which you are. The reason you don't pay the price listed on that page is because you are only one customer. You are not the average customer.
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        The fact that I live in the center of densely populated area and serviced by major provider who also holds monopoly, makes me think there is a chance that table's numbers are just not what you think. They may include just generation cost, and not delivery, or there is something about "ultimate customer" definition. Also, there were several hikes since Oct in my understanding.
        kube-system 3y ago
        I read form EIA-861, which is where the data comes from. Looks like sales to "ultimate customers" means it excludes electricity that was not sold, electricity that was sold to resellers, energy lost, etc. The form also collects information about revenue from delivery "and other related charges" 42c/kwh delivery sounds insane. I couldn't find much data about average delivery rates, but I plugged in a few counties here and it looks like many areas have delivery rates significantly lower than that: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison
        riku_iki 3y ago
        > I plugged in a few counties here and it looks like many areas have delivery rates significantly lower than that: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/RateComparison That page says numbers are year old, I entered my zip there and it says delivery is 20c/kwh for me. If you don't know the story: PG&E is delivery monopolist in CA, with exception of some places with local powerplants. It was found guilty in causing wildfires, lost in court and need to pay $XXB damages, which it now shifts to customers through multiple rate hikes in 2023 and more coming in 2024. 42c/kwh is initial tier cost, whatever is over limit will be charged at 50c/kwh for just delivery.