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Your lack of professional seriousness is truly astounding. One of the primary reasons we've gone with React/NextJS coupled with MongoDB and Kubernetes over HTM
by purple_ferret 3y ago
Your lack of professional seriousness is truly astounding.
One of the primary reasons we've gone with React/NextJS coupled with MongoDB and Kubernetes over HTMX
- sgift 3y agoTalks about lack of professional seriousness. Goes with MongoDB. Sometimes reality writes the best jokes.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- endisneigh 3y agoWhat’s wrong with mongodb?
- macintux 3y agoI can't speak to its current state, but there were some highly dubious design decisions early in its life, such as the library would reply to the client indicating a successful push of data into the database before the network request even left the local computer.
- endisneigh 3y agoThe past mongodb issues don’t seem relevant unless they persist today, no?
- macintux 3y agoReputational damage is difficult to recover from.
- endisneigh 3y agoThat’s not relevant to the question of “what’s wrong with mongodb?” It seems folks just regurgitate memes without any understanding of the current product.
- macintux 3y agoI thought "I can't speak to its current state" explained that I could not, in fact, speak to its current state. But when it comes to databases, which are often the single most important part of an architecture, you'll find that many people are less forgiving of old sins, especially when Postgres now has native JSON support. Much like I won't trust Uber with my location, or Google with my email, I won't trust Mongo with my data.
- endisneigh 3y agoWhy even reply if you don’t know what you’re talking about in terms of current mongo? Not sure what Postgres or Uber or Google even has to do with this. FYI using mongo is more than simply wanting a json interface.
- cstrahan 3y agoDoes this proverb sound familiar? "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." Maybe MongoDB is great now. That doesn't change the fact that many people have been burned by MongoDB. But, perhaps we can let maybe we can let bygones be bygones if we can determine that MongoDB is solid and dependable now. How do we make that determination? If we decide that MongoDB is now robust based on present popularity and general satisfaction, that's fallacious reasoning: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon After all, there was tons of stoke about MongoDB early on, only for people to realize later that their data was being silently nuked, which is why there is such a grudge against MongoDB in the first place. If an appeal to popular belief is proof, then we have a paradox. Not everyone has the time and skill to thoroughly analyze MongoDB like Kyle Kingsbury / Jepsen: https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-4.2.6 https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-4.2.6 And even then, there are so many other databases that have a better track record, so it would be hard to argue that the effort would be worthwhile. I don't see how you're struggling with the notion of reputation here. Maybe bias in favor of MongoDB is too strong? If that's the case, one last ditch effort: If your friend's dog has gruesomely bit you 10 out of the last 10 times you've visited him, but he swears the dog is now rehabilitated, do you just shrug off being bit over and over again, and visit your friend without even the slightest apprehension? Or do you, at the very least, remain hypervigilant, given you're history with the dog? Now replace "dog" with "MongoDB", and replace "bite" with "invaluable production data being absolutely eviscerated, resulting in your customer's lost trust and also immeasurable financial harm being done to you and your family".
- Literalyevery 3y agoMongodb was/is for a long time inconsistent. You had to worry loosing data when using mongo. And everything mongodb brought us, was either implemented by someone else better or already existed. If you use mongodb today, just go with postgres and forget about mongo
- endisneigh 3y agoYes there used to be issues with mongo (and Postgres around serializable for the matter). What are the issues in 2024?
- osalberger 3y agoBreaks causal consistency and a bunch of other assumptions: https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-4.2.6 https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-4.2.6
- endisneigh 3y ago4 years old. Mongodb is at version 7 now.
- tobltobs 3y agoSo MongoDB was an inconsistent DB for at least 70% of its lifetime. It doesn't sound too ensuring.
- Literalyevery 3y agoWhy giving something a chance when you can just use postgres?
- bombcar 3y agoIt's webscale.
- robertlagrant 3y agoI'm pretty sure that was a joke.
- sodapopcan 3y agoI wasn't sure at first but on a re-read it now seems glaringly obvious it's a joke :D
- paulddraper 3y agoI wasn't sure either until the gratuitous "coupled with MongoDB and Kubernetes" lol
- ASalazarMX 3y agoAnd it was indeed written by someone real! Astounding!
- drcongo 3y agoSometimes the best jokes look like reality.
- notfed 3y agoPoe would like a word with you.
- markski 3y agoyou chose your stack by weighing the professionalism of the twitter account?
- lmeyerov 3y agomay you never have to maintain production code...
- markski 3y agoi do. what now?
- lmeyerov 3y agomay you and the people relying on you never have to rely on the maintainers taking things more seriously than they've shown themselves to in their public positioning
- markski 3y agoHTMX has existed for nearly a decade (prev. intercoolerjs); 1cg has proven to be extremely invested in it, and the whole philosophy around it in general (even being in charge of an "Hypermedia Research Group" at Montana university). To dismiss all of the credibility he has created with his work just because the guy wants to be funny on twitter is nothing short of stupid.
- lmeyerov 3y agoThis appears to be the official account, not a personal one. If he wants me to take htmx seriously as a prod dependency, I care about how he treats it, all the way from code to governance to community interactions. He has no such obligation to do these things, this is all his choice. I'm not sure why the contention? If you read my comment, it was strictly about production scenarios, not about all credibility for all scenarios. If this project is meant to be treated as fun CRAPL, Matthew Might made a great license for that: https://matt.might.net/articles/crapl/ https://matt.might.net/articles/crapl/ .
- recursivedoubts 3y agoThat's a great option, many people choose it!
- recursivedoubts 3y agoOK, I'll respond in a bit more detail to this, now that it's closer to the top. I'll assume you are being serious as well (always hard to tell online.) I understand where you are coming from, the @htmx_org twitter account is very silly. This can be a big turn off to some developers and companies. On the other hand, I do have a fair number of serious essays on the htmx website (https://htmx.org/essays https://htmx.org/essays) and a free book that is also serious (https://hypermedia.systems https://hypermedia.systems). I view twitter as a tool for getting the word out about htmx and, therefore, use it in that manner. I don't think that medium supports super-nuanced discussions (although I've had some.) I try to not be negative on it, and frequently link to my essays for more in-depth discussions. I also enjoy being funny and making people laugh. And, while I can understand and sympathize with people who dislike the general vibe of my account, you can't argue with the success of this approach. It has recently passed 27k stars on github: https://star-history.com/#bigskysoftware/htmx&Date https://star-history.com/#bigskysoftware/htmx&Date And finished 2nd (!!!) in the js rising stars frameworks for 2023: https://risingstars.js.org/2023/en#section-framework https://risingstars.js.org/2023/en#section-framework Plus #10 overall. This is a library created by a one-person company that is trying to compete with the likes of Facebook, Google and Vercel when it comes to developer mindshare. While I would love to think it is the insightful essays, excellent coding ability and the quality of my book, there is no doubt that the twitter account has been a huge contributor to htmx's success.
- sodapopcan 3y agoI'm not OP, but I would like to think it's a joke. If they were actually turned off by your "lack of professionalism" they would like turn to Alpinejs before "React/NextJS coupled with MongoDB and Kubernetes" :) But who knows!