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Career aside - I’ve had the experience of being an immigrant in both North America and Europe. There’s no comparison: go to the USA. This is about more than st

Career aside - I’ve had the experience of being an immigrant in both North America and Europe. There’s no comparison: go to the USA. This is about more than stats and numbers - it’s about finding a new home, being welcomed, being able to fit in, open minded locals. Even really conservative North Americans are super nice and welcoming if you stick to the rules. Having said all that, actually getting the right to move there is easier said than done, but totally worth it.

ranguna 3y ago
Where did you stay in Europe to have such a bad experience?
- FredPret 3y ago
  I didn’t have a bad experience per se. I just had a strong sense that I’ll never be considered a true & proper (insert country here)-man. Those cultures are so old and have an ethnic component - nobody will ever think that I’m French / English / a Swede etc. I often got the vibe of “you’re lucky to be here, now when are you going back?” That’s not their fault by the way - they don’t owe me a good immigration experience or even the chance to immigrate. But in the US & Canada it’s completely different. I’m just another guy here. People who were born here consider this to be my home, not the country I’m from. I’ve met exactly two Canadians who were even mildly xenophobic (one on here!).
  - ranguna 3y ago
    I get that wherever I go outside the country I was born in, including the US. Mind you, I didn't visit all the states or stay for too long.
diggan 3y ago
> being welcomed, being able to fit in, open minded locals This part differs as much across Europe as it does in the US, I'm sure. Hard to say one is "more racist" or "more bigot" than the other, without knowing exactly what locations you're comparing. > Even really conservative North Americans are super nice and welcoming if you stick to the rules That's the easy part! The interesting and valuable part is how they treat you when you don't fit into their "rules" and "how people should act".
- FredPret 3y ago
  I would argue if you move to a new country without the intention of fitting in there, you’re moving in bad faith. Now, in NA, you can still “fit in” even while doing something new & weird, as long as your intention is to build some enterprise, contribute to society, and not do any crime. This is not the same as the social strictures of other places.
  - diggan 3y ago
    > Now, in NA, you can still “fit in” even while doing something new & weird And what that I understand you're also implying that you cannot do this in Europe? I cannot say it's possible all over Europe, as I haven't been everywhere, but to the places I have been, I'm confident you'd be able to fit in while at the same time doing something new and weird.
    - FredPret 3y ago
      My point is I wouldn't even fit no matter how conventional I might be. I'm not from there, so I don't fit into the local identity. In Canada and the States, they care more about what you do and how you behave than where you're from. EDIT: I want to stress that I don’t think Europeans are racist or xenophobes. They just have old idenities that are tied in with ethnicity, whereas in NA most people have an immigrant grandparent.
- mista2nith 3y ago
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subtra3t 3y ago
I've heard that NA is more welcoming of immigrants because as a country it relied more on immigrants' brain power and brain drain from other countries. What do you think of that statement?

ranguna 3y ago

Where did you stay in Europe to have such a bad experience?

FredPret 3y ago
I didn’t have a bad experience per se. I just had a strong sense that I’ll never be considered a true & proper (insert country here)-man. Those cultures are so old and have an ethnic component - nobody will ever think that I’m French / English / a Swede etc. I often got the vibe of “you’re lucky to be here, now when are you going back?” That’s not their fault by the way - they don’t owe me a good immigration experience or even the chance to immigrate. But in the US & Canada it’s completely different. I’m just another guy here. People who were born here consider this to be my home, not the country I’m from. I’ve met exactly two Canadians who were even mildly xenophobic (one on here!).
- ranguna 3y ago
  I get that wherever I go outside the country I was born in, including the US. Mind you, I didn't visit all the states or stay for too long.

diggan 3y ago

> being welcomed, being able to fit in, open minded locals This part differs as much across Europe as it does in the US, I'm sure. Hard to say one is "more racist" or "more bigot" than the other, without knowing exactly what locations you're comparing. > Even really conservative North Americans are super nice and welcoming if you stick to the rules That's the easy part! The interesting and valuable part is how they treat you when you don't fit into their "rules" and "how people should act".

FredPret 3y ago
I would argue if you move to a new country without the intention of fitting in there, you’re moving in bad faith. Now, in NA, you can still “fit in” even while doing something new & weird, as long as your intention is to build some enterprise, contribute to society, and not do any crime. This is not the same as the social strictures of other places.
- diggan 3y ago
  > Now, in NA, you can still “fit in” even while doing something new & weird And what that I understand you're also implying that you cannot do this in Europe? I cannot say it's possible all over Europe, as I haven't been everywhere, but to the places I have been, I'm confident you'd be able to fit in while at the same time doing something new and weird.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    My point is I wouldn't even fit no matter how conventional I might be. I'm not from there, so I don't fit into the local identity. In Canada and the States, they care more about what you do and how you behave than where you're from. EDIT: I want to stress that I don’t think Europeans are racist or xenophobes. They just have old idenities that are tied in with ethnicity, whereas in NA most people have an immigrant grandparent.
mista2nith 3y ago
[dead]

subtra3t 3y ago

I've heard that NA is more welcoming of immigrants because as a country it relied more on immigrants' brain power and brain drain from other countries. What do you think of that statement?