3 ms·

I’m hoping that, at some point, someone at YouTube will ask a User experience researcher to look into users’ motivation to block ads and realize that there are

by bertil 3y ago

I’m hoping that, at some point, someone at YouTube will ask a User experience researcher to look into users’ motivation to block ads and realize that there are glaring issues with their model. What has been happening to me is that, for the last decade or so, I only see ads in languages that I don’t speak or understand. I wrote about it—a lot. Nothing. A friend worked as the head of Analytics for that part of YouTube and he told me, “They don’t care.” I pointed out that it’s so common that Antonio Garcia Martinez wrote about it in his book _Chaos Monkeys_ (in 2012) and estimated that, at the time, it costs Facebook 4% of their ad revenue. I can confirm because I raised that point internally not once (in 2016 and it was fixed) but twice (the fix was overruled and I saw it again in 2020). In 2024, they are still wasting their time and energy, and 4% of Meta’s revenues isn’t chump change. That’s not counting on pervasive ads for alcohol (illegal where I am), gambling (having an opt-out is mandatory in most jurisdictions), tax evading services (also illegal where I am), and specifically on Threads and Twitter, literal prostitution, and/or romance scams (I didn’t investigate which, tried to report, but was told that’s fine by their community guidelines). I’m not a security researcher, and I refuse to investigate further than strictly necessary for my sanity (I expect deserved judgment from this community for that) however, in spite of that, I know ads are a constant vector for malware. Not much is done to address basic vectors, like not running any executable code in ads. The only reason why enormous waste at scale, rampant illegal activity, and gaping security holes aren’t the only topics of conversation online is that everyone who can explain what’s happening has opted out. Forcing them back in isn’t the solution.

bertil 3y ago
If anyone is curious whether I’m exaggerating, I had to check a vendor presentation for work. The video is on YouTube, and the first ad I saw reads: > Beauties From Eastern Europe > Chat and meet real Slavic women > Sponsored > love-stories with a photo (presumably AI-generated) where to be completely honest, I could see that she was wearing red lacey underwear and had had a full bikini wax. Do you know what kind of question I want to have from my boss when discussing a vendor? NOT WHY DOES GOOGLE THINK I WOULD FINANCIALLY SUPPORT LITERAL HUMAN TRAFFICKING. So guess what I’m activating on my browser to NOT GET FIRED.
- lopis 3y ago
  I'm a homosexual. Youtube ads have been showing me ads for soft porn depicting underaged anime girls, explicit porn barely covering the girls' sexual parts, and dating apps for dating mature women for several years now. A brain the size of a planet, and Google still can't figure out this is the last thing I would click on?
  - blueflow 3y ago
    Some years ago i was listening to Viktor Tsoi / KINO music on YT. KINO was a russian band that disbanded in the 90ies. So several times a week, i got YT Ads in russian. I did not understand a word.
  - spencerchubb 3y ago
    Have you ever looked at the interface for buying ads on Google/Facebook/other? They don't use an algorithm to decide who to show ads to. The ad buyer decides who they want to show the ad to.
    - bertil 3y ago
      I click systematically, and it almost always says they picked a broad category, like “Men between 25 and 75 in [country].” There’s usually some phrasing that is meant to be ambiguous or unclear but that I have to interpret as “based on your other behavior.” I can only assume neither I nor the gay commentator earlier have ever done anything that expressed an interest in either underage pornography or AI-generated female honeypots, and so that “smart” implicit targeting really needs some serious scrutiny. I get the joke that it reveals what I do in private. I’ve made it myself when people are complaining about Twitter—usually after confirming the rest of their activity matches the prejudice that I’m lobbing at them. What I can assure you is not happening, in public or in private, is me speaking Finnish or Cantonese.
    - lopis 3y ago
      Yes, and that's why I conclude that Google must have terrible targeting and wastes advertisers money.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
Not sure why we'd need a Scientism priest to validate the fact that people don't want to watch fucking ads.
- bertil 3y ago
  There are some Ads I'm keen to watch: I just clicked on an ad for Netflix telling me about a new movie that came out. I probably shouldn’t watch movies in the middle of the day, but that was relevant, well targeted, and will lead to measurable gain for Netflix (assuming they have the data stack to tell them that an extra view from an existing user is good). I like seeing ads for conferences (assuming my boss will grant me the budget to go and not assume I’m supporting human trafficking). And, as I mentioned, I’m comparing vendors, so seeing ads for competitors of what I’m searching now would be great (relevant ones comparing their offers, not funneling to pointless sales calls with people who couldn’t get out of Vim if they ever figure out how to start a computer).
lopis 3y ago
> they are still wasting their time and energy Perhaps I misunderstand how their models work, but aren't they wasting only their customers' time and energy (and money)?
- bertil 3y ago
  Technically (and by that, I mean if you get into multivariate, intertemporal, multi-product auction theory, so very technical), “customers,” i.e., users seeing irrelevant ads, means they don’t get to see relevant ones, don’t click. Those customers would waste their bandwidth and scrolling time, but they rarely pay per Mb and scroll fast. They might fat-finger an ad (that happens surprisingly often when you start looking into it) and waste both their time closing windows and tabbing back to where they were. Most Meta’s “customers,” the advertisers, see a higher number of ads shown per client acquired. That doesn’t really change their decision to advertise, and their budget as long as the cost per client (click to the site or converted client, depending) is the same. Therefore, I’d argue users aren’t that impacted (unless you count not seeing a relevant ad as a bad thing, which I would, but that’s controversial); advertisers have less impact than they could, but it’s not that it costs them, as much they don’t pay for something they didn’t get. Meta is the one loosing 4% of their potential revenues. But admittedly, it’s a wider, complex, integrated system. I’d rather not feel like an increasingly large chunk of it is gambling, tax evasion, and human trafficking.
someonehere 3y ago
That book is garbage. Having been employed at FB, I worked with plenty of OG FB people who poked holes in all his claims. I even recall getting into an argument with the guy on an ex employee FB group about his upcoming book. Don’t take that book at its face value.

by bertil 3y ago

bertil 3y ago

If anyone is curious whether I’m exaggerating, I had to check a vendor presentation for work. The video is on YouTube, and the first ad I saw reads: > Beauties From Eastern Europe > Chat and meet real Slavic women > Sponsored > love-stories with a photo (presumably AI-generated) where to be completely honest, I could see that she was wearing red lacey underwear and had had a full bikini wax. Do you know what kind of question I want to have from my boss when discussing a vendor? NOT WHY DOES GOOGLE THINK I WOULD FINANCIALLY SUPPORT LITERAL HUMAN TRAFFICKING. So guess what I’m activating on my browser to NOT GET FIRED.

lopis 3y ago
I'm a homosexual. Youtube ads have been showing me ads for soft porn depicting underaged anime girls, explicit porn barely covering the girls' sexual parts, and dating apps for dating mature women for several years now. A brain the size of a planet, and Google still can't figure out this is the last thing I would click on?
- blueflow 3y ago
  Some years ago i was listening to Viktor Tsoi / KINO music on YT. KINO was a russian band that disbanded in the 90ies. So several times a week, i got YT Ads in russian. I did not understand a word.
- spencerchubb 3y ago
  Have you ever looked at the interface for buying ads on Google/Facebook/other? They don't use an algorithm to decide who to show ads to. The ad buyer decides who they want to show the ad to.
  - bertil 3y ago
    I click systematically, and it almost always says they picked a broad category, like “Men between 25 and 75 in [country].” There’s usually some phrasing that is meant to be ambiguous or unclear but that I have to interpret as “based on your other behavior.” I can only assume neither I nor the gay commentator earlier have ever done anything that expressed an interest in either underage pornography or AI-generated female honeypots, and so that “smart” implicit targeting really needs some serious scrutiny. I get the joke that it reveals what I do in private. I’ve made it myself when people are complaining about Twitter—usually after confirming the rest of their activity matches the prejudice that I’m lobbing at them. What I can assure you is not happening, in public or in private, is me speaking Finnish or Cantonese.
  - lopis 3y ago
    Yes, and that's why I conclude that Google must have terrible targeting and wastes advertisers money.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

Not sure why we'd need a Scientism priest to validate the fact that people don't want to watch fucking ads.

bertil 3y ago
There are some Ads I'm keen to watch: I just clicked on an ad for Netflix telling me about a new movie that came out. I probably shouldn’t watch movies in the middle of the day, but that was relevant, well targeted, and will lead to measurable gain for Netflix (assuming they have the data stack to tell them that an extra view from an existing user is good). I like seeing ads for conferences (assuming my boss will grant me the budget to go and not assume I’m supporting human trafficking). And, as I mentioned, I’m comparing vendors, so seeing ads for competitors of what I’m searching now would be great (relevant ones comparing their offers, not funneling to pointless sales calls with people who couldn’t get out of Vim if they ever figure out how to start a computer).

lopis 3y ago

> they are still wasting their time and energy Perhaps I misunderstand how their models work, but aren't they wasting only their customers' time and energy (and money)?

bertil 3y ago
Technically (and by that, I mean if you get into multivariate, intertemporal, multi-product auction theory, so very technical), “customers,” i.e., users seeing irrelevant ads, means they don’t get to see relevant ones, don’t click. Those customers would waste their bandwidth and scrolling time, but they rarely pay per Mb and scroll fast. They might fat-finger an ad (that happens surprisingly often when you start looking into it) and waste both their time closing windows and tabbing back to where they were. Most Meta’s “customers,” the advertisers, see a higher number of ads shown per client acquired. That doesn’t really change their decision to advertise, and their budget as long as the cost per client (click to the site or converted client, depending) is the same. Therefore, I’d argue users aren’t that impacted (unless you count not seeing a relevant ad as a bad thing, which I would, but that’s controversial); advertisers have less impact than they could, but it’s not that it costs them, as much they don’t pay for something they didn’t get. Meta is the one loosing 4% of their potential revenues. But admittedly, it’s a wider, complex, integrated system. I’d rather not feel like an increasingly large chunk of it is gambling, tax evasion, and human trafficking.

someonehere 3y ago

That book is garbage. Having been employed at FB, I worked with plenty of OG FB people who poked holes in all his claims. I even recall getting into an argument with the guy on an ex employee FB group about his upcoming book. Don’t take that book at its face value.