3 ms·

It's a huge problem if the rental market is underbuilt. It's not nearly as much a problem (perhaps not a problem at all) if the rental market is overbuilt. From

It's a huge problem if the rental market is underbuilt. It's not nearly as much a problem (perhaps not a problem at all) if the rental market is overbuilt. From what I hear from friends in Austria, it's not a problem.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
So you're talking about what you heard from others, not from personal experience. It's not a problem FOR THEM, right NOW, probaly because they have good paying jobs and/or also qualify for Vienna social housing, aka survivorhsip bias, but the rest of Austria doesn't have Vienna's social housing, and the private rental market is not that great as you imagine suffering from siliar issues as the rest of Europe. Also, you won't be able to afford to rent your hole life in retirement, as private market rents are indexed yearly to inflation, meaning you're vulnerable to old age poverty, something less likely to happen if you own your own property outrighht by then, which is almost impossible in Austria. Why are you choosing to ignore the for-sale property market, which IMHO is important for wealth and financial stability than being at the mercy of the rental market? The rental market is not on your side, it won't protect you.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Why are you choosing to ignore the observation that many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing? I'm in the US. In the US, you really "have to" buy for the reasons that you enumerate. That doesn't seem to be the case in Vienna.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Why are you choosing to ignore the observation that many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing? Becase the discussion was about Austria, not Vienna. Vienna != Austria just how Washington != the US. Austria is much bigger than Vienna. If Vienna's housing policy was such a stellar idea, why wasn't it applied nation wide so everyone can benefit from it? >many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing If you get social housing I'm sure you'll be satisfied, same how getting free stuff paid for by others, makes everyone satisfied. What about those that don't get social housing being stuck in the private rental market with no hopes of ownign anything, basically condemmed to old age poverty but still pay taxes just as those getting social housing? Tough shit for them?
    - rcbdev 3y ago
      If you're below 30 you'll get social housing immediately after being "stuck" in private rental for 2 years - which, considering the heavy rent price restrictions of the MRG - is more than cheap in Vienna. You'd have to pay the mark-up of "Direktvergabeablöse" (one-time payment of ~3-4k€) if you want anything decent, of course. If you are older than 30 and earn enough to be disqualified from social housing, you should have enough equity to satisfy any property loan already.
- rcbdev 3y ago
  > if you own your own property outrighht by then, which is almost impossible in Austria. On a dev salary it's more than possible to buy your own home, especially if you take advantage of the govt. loans capped to sub 1% rates (Wohnbauförderung) or one-time support checks (Carinthian Häuslbauerbonus or Tyrolean equivalent). The options here differ a lot state by state. Alternative would be a ~100k€ small apartment which can be sensibly rented out for the time being. Austria has a required equity ratio on real estate loans of 20% - this can easily be achieved. Point being: The scenario you're describing is trivially avoidable these days.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

So you're talking about what you heard from others, not from personal experience. It's not a problem FOR THEM, right NOW, probaly because they have good paying jobs and/or also qualify for Vienna social housing, aka survivorhsip bias, but the rest of Austria doesn't have Vienna's social housing, and the private rental market is not that great as you imagine suffering from siliar issues as the rest of Europe. Also, you won't be able to afford to rent your hole life in retirement, as private market rents are indexed yearly to inflation, meaning you're vulnerable to old age poverty, something less likely to happen if you own your own property outrighht by then, which is almost impossible in Austria. Why are you choosing to ignore the for-sale property market, which IMHO is important for wealth and financial stability than being at the mercy of the rental market? The rental market is not on your side, it won't protect you.

sokoloff 3y ago
Why are you choosing to ignore the observation that many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing? I'm in the US. In the US, you really "have to" buy for the reasons that you enumerate. That doesn't seem to be the case in Vienna.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Why are you choosing to ignore the observation that many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing? Becase the discussion was about Austria, not Vienna. Vienna != Austria just how Washington != the US. Austria is much bigger than Vienna. If Vienna's housing policy was such a stellar idea, why wasn't it applied nation wide so everyone can benefit from it? >many residents in Vienna report being very satisfied with social housing If you get social housing I'm sure you'll be satisfied, same how getting free stuff paid for by others, makes everyone satisfied. What about those that don't get social housing being stuck in the private rental market with no hopes of ownign anything, basically condemmed to old age poverty but still pay taxes just as those getting social housing? Tough shit for them?
  - rcbdev 3y ago
    If you're below 30 you'll get social housing immediately after being "stuck" in private rental for 2 years - which, considering the heavy rent price restrictions of the MRG - is more than cheap in Vienna. You'd have to pay the mark-up of "Direktvergabeablöse" (one-time payment of ~3-4k€) if you want anything decent, of course. If you are older than 30 and earn enough to be disqualified from social housing, you should have enough equity to satisfy any property loan already.
rcbdev 3y ago
> if you own your own property outrighht by then, which is almost impossible in Austria. On a dev salary it's more than possible to buy your own home, especially if you take advantage of the govt. loans capped to sub 1% rates (Wohnbauförderung) or one-time support checks (Carinthian Häuslbauerbonus or Tyrolean equivalent). The options here differ a lot state by state. Alternative would be a ~100k€ small apartment which can be sensibly rented out for the time being. Austria has a required equity ratio on real estate loans of 20% - this can easily be achieved. Point being: The scenario you're describing is trivially avoidable these days.