4 ms·

>Treating inflammation from 'bad' causes (outside of genetic disposition) is probably a bad I'm pretty sure most asthmatics would disagree.

lazide 3y ago
Albuterol doesn’t treat inflammation directly, but is absolutely critical for emergency management. And control meds for children seem to (oddly) have zero actual benefit in controlled studies almost every time. But do seem to work. Which is pretty odd, no? There is a lot we don’t know about asthma. Exercise and stress reduction do seem to help, but also not in obvious ways.
- hhjinks 3y ago
  Well, asthma is multifaceted. You can have an obstruction caused by muscles contracting, or by mucus from inflammation. In either case, dilating the muscles, which is what albuterol does, can give you better air flow, lessening your perceptible symptoms. You'd still want a corticosteorid-based medicide to treat the inflammation if you have that kind of asthma, though, as the chronic inflammation can worsen your illness over time, hence my original comment.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > dilating the muscles, which is what albuterol does Dilating the muscles? Dilation would normally be something that happens to holes (meaning they get larger); muscles can only tense and relax.
    - lazide 3y ago
      How do you think the bodies holes get smaller and larger? And do you know what bronchioles and alveoli are? If not, they’re what start closing up.
      - thaumasiotes 3y ago
        Generally I assume that holes get larger due to certain muscles tensing and smaller due to certain other muscles tensing. (It's also possible that holes get smaller due to swelling in the tissue surrounding them, and larger when that swelling subsides, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.) Are you saying that the muscles that dilate the hole are themselves "dilating" when they tense, while the muscles that contract the hole are not "dilating" when they tense?
        lazide 3y ago
        Ah, is your objection to the mixed terms, or to the intent of the poster? Or not an objection and a curious question? It can be hard to tell here. Pretty much all of the bodies sphincters and regulated ‘pipes’ (including circulatory, GI, respiratory) either constrict (muscles tense) or dilate (muscles relax). Often there is minimal/no counter acting structure except perhaps for some ligaments/support structure, and the ‘opening’ force is provided by another means. Confusingly, the optical pupils are the other way around - the pupillary dilator muscles have to contract to dilate the pupil. They are not the common case. Albuterol acts directly on bronchial smooth muscle forcing it to relax (and also decreasing any immediate stress response in those cells). Which allows the alveolar duct to dilate during respiration. I’m not aware of any significant muscular structure that actually would pull open the alveolar ducts - the force to inflate them comes from air inflating the lungs against the slight vacuum in the pleural breathing spaces from the action of the diaphragm and accessory breathing muscles. The characteristic wheezing of asthma is due to the alveolar ducts (and bronchial in bad cases) muscles contracting excessively, constricting the airway and making it impossible to get adequate tidal volume. Sometimes it’s excessive due to the presence of mucus that isn’t being taken into account, other times even without it. Counterintuitively, the difficulty breathing is generally because the air already inhaled cannot escape easily enough to allow room for more air. The wheezing is strongest on exhalation, and when responding to calls in the past, I’ve personally heard so bad it was clearly audible through multiple interior walls and the exterior wall - and outside the building. With an ambulance and fire truck running outside. That is for adults who have stronger muscles. Pediatric patients are usually much more subtle. Inadequate respiratory tidal volume is of course an immediate life threatening emergency, and very high on the ‘kills ya faster’ list. Time wise, potentially similar to hypovolemic shock or cardiac arrest. It seems saying the ‘muscle dilates’, while not being technically exacting, isn’t misleading in this situation.
    - hhjinks 3y ago
      True. I probably thought about dilation in the context of bronchodilation and incorrectly transferred that to muscles.

lazide 3y ago

Albuterol doesn’t treat inflammation directly, but is absolutely critical for emergency management. And control meds for children seem to (oddly) have zero actual benefit in controlled studies almost every time. But do seem to work. Which is pretty odd, no? There is a lot we don’t know about asthma. Exercise and stress reduction do seem to help, but also not in obvious ways.

hhjinks 3y ago
Well, asthma is multifaceted. You can have an obstruction caused by muscles contracting, or by mucus from inflammation. In either case, dilating the muscles, which is what albuterol does, can give you better air flow, lessening your perceptible symptoms. You'd still want a corticosteorid-based medicide to treat the inflammation if you have that kind of asthma, though, as the chronic inflammation can worsen your illness over time, hence my original comment.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > dilating the muscles, which is what albuterol does Dilating the muscles? Dilation would normally be something that happens to holes (meaning they get larger); muscles can only tense and relax.
  - lazide 3y ago
    How do you think the bodies holes get smaller and larger? And do you know what bronchioles and alveoli are? If not, they’re what start closing up.
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      Generally I assume that holes get larger due to certain muscles tensing and smaller due to certain other muscles tensing. (It's also possible that holes get smaller due to swelling in the tissue surrounding them, and larger when that swelling subsides, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.) Are you saying that the muscles that dilate the hole are themselves "dilating" when they tense, while the muscles that contract the hole are not "dilating" when they tense?
      - lazide 3y ago
        Ah, is your objection to the mixed terms, or to the intent of the poster? Or not an objection and a curious question? It can be hard to tell here. Pretty much all of the bodies sphincters and regulated ‘pipes’ (including circulatory, GI, respiratory) either constrict (muscles tense) or dilate (muscles relax). Often there is minimal/no counter acting structure except perhaps for some ligaments/support structure, and the ‘opening’ force is provided by another means. Confusingly, the optical pupils are the other way around - the pupillary dilator muscles have to contract to dilate the pupil. They are not the common case. Albuterol acts directly on bronchial smooth muscle forcing it to relax (and also decreasing any immediate stress response in those cells). Which allows the alveolar duct to dilate during respiration. I’m not aware of any significant muscular structure that actually would pull open the alveolar ducts - the force to inflate them comes from air inflating the lungs against the slight vacuum in the pleural breathing spaces from the action of the diaphragm and accessory breathing muscles. The characteristic wheezing of asthma is due to the alveolar ducts (and bronchial in bad cases) muscles contracting excessively, constricting the airway and making it impossible to get adequate tidal volume. Sometimes it’s excessive due to the presence of mucus that isn’t being taken into account, other times even without it. Counterintuitively, the difficulty breathing is generally because the air already inhaled cannot escape easily enough to allow room for more air. The wheezing is strongest on exhalation, and when responding to calls in the past, I’ve personally heard so bad it was clearly audible through multiple interior walls and the exterior wall - and outside the building. With an ambulance and fire truck running outside. That is for adults who have stronger muscles. Pediatric patients are usually much more subtle. Inadequate respiratory tidal volume is of course an immediate life threatening emergency, and very high on the ‘kills ya faster’ list. Time wise, potentially similar to hypovolemic shock or cardiac arrest. It seems saying the ‘muscle dilates’, while not being technically exacting, isn’t misleading in this situation.
  - hhjinks 3y ago
    True. I probably thought about dilation in the context of bronchodilation and incorrectly transferred that to muscles.