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> The answer to all of them is they are happing during combat, as damage as a result of combat. Turning off water is not combat. Rigging the supreme court wit

> The answer to all of them is they are happing during combat, as damage as a result of combat. Turning off water is not combat. Rigging the supreme court with explosives after posing for selfies in it is not combat. Destroying universities and mocking people in Gaza for having no education (when they're not singing that they're no schools in Gaza cuz there are no kids in Gaza) is not combat. IDF soldiers singing about how "there are no innocent civilians" and bragging about how many residential houses they destroyed is not combat. Sniping a 70 year old woman fleeing with a child isn't combat. Shooting at youth, then running over their body with an army truck on camera and leaving them to bleed to death isn't combat. Bombing the tents of refugee camps is not combat. > Hamas can surrender any time and combat will cease Right. So occupying land and blockading Gaza is fine. Supporting Hamas over moderates to get "legitimacy" as Smotrich called it, is fine. But NOW you draw a line, and simply make demands that must be met before we can stop hiding crimes against humanity under the cover of "combat". No. Such arguments, no matter how often we have heard them repeated, are not even a bad attempt, and light of the gravity of the situation that's grave as well.

vasilipupkin 3y ago
I beg you people to engage with actual facts. You can't deny that there is combat going on there, what are we actually arguing about. Is Israel obliged to provide water to an enemy entity? In what world does a country attacked by an enemy have an obligation to provide water. Why is Hamas, which is in control of Gaza, not obliged to provide water for its citizens? WHy is it the responsibility of Israel? Nevertheless,they turned the water back on https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-it-is-restarting-water-supply-to-southern-gaza-strip/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-it-is-restarting-w... "Occupying land and blockading gaza is fine" Israel left Gaza in 2005. The blockade of Gaza was in response to Hamas taking power and immediately engaging in attacks against Israel. WHy do you think Egypt also blockades Gaza? "But NOW you draw a line" Please, engage with facts Israel spent 17 years trying to manage Hamas without engaging in a full on war, despite Hamas repeated attacks against Israel. This strategy completely failed culminating in October 7th. Which showed that Hamas can't be managed, it must be destroyed. That is what is currently going on in Gaza. All this could have been different had Hamas made different choices. But they chose war and war they got. https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/ https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-re...
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  > Is Israel obliged to provide water to an enemy entity? In what world does a country attacked by an enemy have an obligation to provide water. Using starvation, and denying water falls under that, as a means of warfare is a war crime EVEN if ONLY used against "the enemy". And you are implying the often-heard "there are no civilians in Gaza", which is another atrocity on top of that. https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... > Israel spent 17 years trying to manage Hamas https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... > The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state. Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. And Smotrich, more recently "If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip." and "In the context of de-legitimization - Hamas is an asset and the Palestinian Authority is a liability" One crime does not excuse the other. Blaming war crimes and crimes against humanity on Hamas because they're just so extremely evil and wiley, while people in Gaza get starved to death and Israeli soldiers make TikToks about blowing up whole villages with wired explosives, singing about how they'll move in, while journalists are targeted, refugee tents are bombed, while people repeat the same sophistry over and over, because a positive wall of politicians and hack fraud journalists repeating the most obvious of lies, gives them the idea they have license to. "They chose war and war is what they got". Children screaming in agony as legs get amputated without anesthesia. Unforgivable. People who chose to justify atrocities with the flimsiest excuses got what they wanted, too. But you can't accept it, say I'm engaging with "actual" facts. You are wrong. The facts simply are very unflattering for what you are advocating is all.
  - vasilipupkin 3y ago
    You are missing the point. First of all, cutting off water to enemy forces is not a war crime https://www.quora.com/Is-cutting-off-water-to-an-enemy-city-considered-a-war-crime#:~:text=No%20cutting%20off%20all%20supplies,of%20opposing%20forces%20in%20combat https://www.quora.com/Is-cutting-off-water-to-an-enemy-city-.... Secondly, Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization that Israel thought was moderating over time and one that could be managed. That assessment was proven spectacularly wrong And now there is an actual war happening as a result, in which civilians are dying, which is terrible But it’s completely absurd to place 100% of responsibility for this on Israel. Hamas is an actor in this war, not a passive observer Did you know, for example, that when Hamas and Islamic Jihad fire rockets at Israel, a significant percentage misfires and falls right on top of civilians, right in Gaza, injuring and killing civilians? Hamas embeds itself among civilian population These are all choices, choices about starting a war and a manner in which it’s conducted It’s absurd to discuss all this as if Israel is the only party with agency here. Israel has no choice but to try and wipe out Hamas because Hamas has explicitly vowed to repeat October 7th again. That leaves Israel with no real options. But Hamas doesn’t have to embed itself in civilian population to fight Israel, that’s a choice they made knowing it would lead to high civilian casualties.

vasilipupkin 3y ago

I beg you people to engage with actual facts. You can't deny that there is combat going on there, what are we actually arguing about. Is Israel obliged to provide water to an enemy entity? In what world does a country attacked by an enemy have an obligation to provide water. Why is Hamas, which is in control of Gaza, not obliged to provide water for its citizens? WHy is it the responsibility of Israel? Nevertheless,they turned the water back on https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-it-is-restarting-water-supply-to-southern-gaza-strip/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-it-is-restarting-w... "Occupying land and blockading gaza is fine" Israel left Gaza in 2005. The blockade of Gaza was in response to Hamas taking power and immediately engaging in attacks against Israel. WHy do you think Egypt also blockades Gaza? "But NOW you draw a line" Please, engage with facts Israel spent 17 years trying to manage Hamas without engaging in a full on war, despite Hamas repeated attacks against Israel. This strategy completely failed culminating in October 7th. Which showed that Hamas can't be managed, it must be destroyed. That is what is currently going on in Gaza. All this could have been different had Hamas made different choices. But they chose war and war they got. https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/ https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-re...

johnnyworker 3y ago
> Is Israel obliged to provide water to an enemy entity? In what world does a country attacked by an enemy have an obligation to provide water. Using starvation, and denying water falls under that, as a means of warfare is a war crime EVEN if ONLY used against "the enemy". And you are implying the often-heard "there are no civilians in Gaza", which is another atrocity on top of that. https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... > Israel spent 17 years trying to manage Hamas https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... > The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state. Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. And Smotrich, more recently "If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip." and "In the context of de-legitimization - Hamas is an asset and the Palestinian Authority is a liability" One crime does not excuse the other. Blaming war crimes and crimes against humanity on Hamas because they're just so extremely evil and wiley, while people in Gaza get starved to death and Israeli soldiers make TikToks about blowing up whole villages with wired explosives, singing about how they'll move in, while journalists are targeted, refugee tents are bombed, while people repeat the same sophistry over and over, because a positive wall of politicians and hack fraud journalists repeating the most obvious of lies, gives them the idea they have license to. "They chose war and war is what they got". Children screaming in agony as legs get amputated without anesthesia. Unforgivable. People who chose to justify atrocities with the flimsiest excuses got what they wanted, too. But you can't accept it, say I'm engaging with "actual" facts. You are wrong. The facts simply are very unflattering for what you are advocating is all.
- vasilipupkin 3y ago
  You are missing the point. First of all, cutting off water to enemy forces is not a war crime https://www.quora.com/Is-cutting-off-water-to-an-enemy-city-considered-a-war-crime#:~:text=No%20cutting%20off%20all%20supplies,of%20opposing%20forces%20in%20combat https://www.quora.com/Is-cutting-off-water-to-an-enemy-city-.... Secondly, Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization that Israel thought was moderating over time and one that could be managed. That assessment was proven spectacularly wrong And now there is an actual war happening as a result, in which civilians are dying, which is terrible But it’s completely absurd to place 100% of responsibility for this on Israel. Hamas is an actor in this war, not a passive observer Did you know, for example, that when Hamas and Islamic Jihad fire rockets at Israel, a significant percentage misfires and falls right on top of civilians, right in Gaza, injuring and killing civilians? Hamas embeds itself among civilian population These are all choices, choices about starting a war and a manner in which it’s conducted It’s absurd to discuss all this as if Israel is the only party with agency here. Israel has no choice but to try and wipe out Hamas because Hamas has explicitly vowed to repeat October 7th again. That leaves Israel with no real options. But Hamas doesn’t have to embed itself in civilian population to fight Israel, that’s a choice they made knowing it would lead to high civilian casualties.