5 ms·

Don’t let your cats outside was the advice my vet gave me. They’re an invasive predator and their lifespan faces threats from human activity. Indoor cats live l

by dangus 3y ago

Don’t let your cats outside was the advice my vet gave me. They’re an invasive predator and their lifespan faces threats from human activity. Indoor cats live longer healthier lives. If you can modify your house to have a fancy cat door you should just go all the way and build a catio.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Just put a jingle bell on their collar. My family cats growing up never caught anything since.
- thealistra 3y ago
  My family cats just got stealthier with the bells and still brought pray and additional problem started - you could trip over the stealthy cat that came near you
- mschuster91 3y ago
  These things are just as abusive to cats as cow bells are to cows. Imagine you would produce a noise every time you make just the tiniest movements during sleep - most people don't bother to put them off once the cat comes back into their house.
  - darth_avocado 3y ago
    Animals have different sleep patterns and attention spans than us. Cats and dogs usually tune out the sounds they know are not important.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Cow bells have been shown to reduce the amount of food the cow eats many years ago [1]; however the mechanism (sound vs weight) isn't clear. Farmers militantly oppose any attempt to get rid of cow bells though. Some claim that they aren't an issue for the animals, some whine about "traditions" getting endangered (which is even worse IMHO, to torture animals despite knowing better just because it looks good - ffs we managed to ban breeding of dogs and cats that we know to suffer), and others whine that they can't find escaped cows (just as ridiculous, even the 500g of a small cowbell is enough for a year-long battery and RF sender...) [2]. [1] https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/tiere/milchvieh/sind-glocken-fuer-kuehe-gefaehrlich-2 https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/tiere/milchvieh/sind-glocken-f... [2] https://www.fr.de/panorama/tierschuetzer-fordern-verbot-kuhglocken-11194617.html https://www.fr.de/panorama/tierschuetzer-fordern-verbot-kuhg...
Scubabear68 3y ago
+1 on the Catio, we built a really large one years ago (16' wide x 8' deep x 10' high) against our house with a convenient window with a flap cut in the window screen. It has a small tree growing out of it and some flowers and plants, with a few different levels. Cats love it, especially when the odd bird wanders in through the welded wire.
- BillyTheMage 3y ago
  Any design tips on what makes a good space that cats like?
  - scrps 3y ago
    Lots of views, fresh air if possible, warm spots for the cat to sleep and more than one, some place with either wildlife and/or human activity, and of course scratching pads/tower. Granted, I do all of this and my cat (a gift from the pandemic someone dumped on the side of a mountain for me to find, despite not wanting to be a pet owner, thanks humans!) still manages to find a way to sleep on equipment I don't want to have to replace... Edit: typo
  - Scubabear68 3y ago
    Go vertical if you have the room. Put in lots of ramps and places to perch. They like grass and small plants. For construction, we did a two by four frame with welded wire covering it. The welded wire is very secure but still allows a nice view, and is pretty cheap. If you have a Tractor Supply store near you in US) they have it.
pixl97 3y ago
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  Gentle reminder that The Oatmeal is not a reliable source for such information. Dude is far too credulous.
the__alchemist 3y ago
Your points are legit. Anecdotally with a reasonable sample size, outdoor cats are chiller; indoor ones tend to be neurotic and need more attention.
darth_avocado 3y ago
There’s outdoor cats and there’s indoor cats. Some cats thrive being inside and love it, others are miserable when inside and will frequently try to escape. I agree that they’re mini serial killers and have an impact on local ecosystems, but let’s be honest, in most cities, the local ecosystem is just full of invasives (rats, pigeons etc.). Ultimately look at what your cat prefers and let it do what it wants. That’s the only way to ensure longevity.
MarcScott 3y ago
But I bought my cats specifically to do the job they were bred for, which is to catch vermin (rats and mice). They're cute pets as well, but that's not what we selectively bred cats to be. The problem is that humans are invasive; stockpiling rubbish, building grain silos, and creating environments where rats and mice can hide and not be caught by natural predators. If you live in a country where wildcats, or other larger predators, are indigenous, then I don't see the problem in letting them outside.
- Lord-Jobo 3y ago
  Having cats specifically for rodent control is an exception but it's also important to recognize that it makes you and your cat a 1/20,000 exception. The vast vast vast majority of people who own outdoor cats are not doing it for rodent control.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    > The vast vast vast majority of people who own outdoor cats are not doing it for rodent control. Where I live on the country side cats hunting mice and rat is like the first or second argument for having them when speaking to the owners. Of my 6 neighbors, three have cats, so I don't have to though. When I lived in the city, the cat owners were complaining the cats caught mice, not bragging. But city houses also take damage from mice, so I guess it might be a mindset thing.
- Snow_Falls 3y ago
  Cats specifically are invasive species that decimate bird populations.
marssaxman 3y ago
Indoor cats may live longer lives, but I'm not convinced they are happier about it. I wonder what the effect on average human lifespan might be if people were routinely confined to assisted-living facilities for the duration of their adult lives. How many additional years might one gain if you faced no physical risks and experienced regular medical monitoring and treatment? Somehow I doubt many people would opt for that lifestyle, regardless.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  I've seen assisted living facilities, I think I'd rather be dead than have to live in one. Longer life is not automatically worth any tradeoff.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    In this case, the tradeoff is not made by the cat, but by the human. Just like a lot of the time the decision to move someone to an assisted living facility is made by the family not the person.
  - dangus 3y ago
    A loving home isn't a good analogy to a sad badly-managed assisted living facility for a cat. If you play with your cat, provide self-play toys and areas to climb and scratch, feed your cat good quality food, and give them cozy places to enjoy in your home they're visibly happy and content.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Snow_Falls 3y ago
  Cats don't have hopes and dreams to be crushed, we can hardly compare cats to people.
  - dangus 3y ago
    Yeah, I mean, for the record, I'd absolutely love being a house cat. No job, all my meals provided, never any bad weather or threats to deal with, and I have a huge playground of a house all to myself. Would you rather be an Emperor Penguin freezing your ass off in the artic making an 100 mile nesting migration?

by dangus 3y ago

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Just put a jingle bell on their collar. My family cats growing up never caught anything since.

thealistra 3y ago
My family cats just got stealthier with the bells and still brought pray and additional problem started - you could trip over the stealthy cat that came near you
mschuster91 3y ago
These things are just as abusive to cats as cow bells are to cows. Imagine you would produce a noise every time you make just the tiniest movements during sleep - most people don't bother to put them off once the cat comes back into their house.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  Animals have different sleep patterns and attention spans than us. Cats and dogs usually tune out the sounds they know are not important.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Cow bells have been shown to reduce the amount of food the cow eats many years ago [1]; however the mechanism (sound vs weight) isn't clear. Farmers militantly oppose any attempt to get rid of cow bells though. Some claim that they aren't an issue for the animals, some whine about "traditions" getting endangered (which is even worse IMHO, to torture animals despite knowing better just because it looks good - ffs we managed to ban breeding of dogs and cats that we know to suffer), and others whine that they can't find escaped cows (just as ridiculous, even the 500g of a small cowbell is enough for a year-long battery and RF sender...) [2]. [1] https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/tiere/milchvieh/sind-glocken-fuer-kuehe-gefaehrlich-2 https://www.schweizerbauer.ch/tiere/milchvieh/sind-glocken-f... [2] https://www.fr.de/panorama/tierschuetzer-fordern-verbot-kuhglocken-11194617.html https://www.fr.de/panorama/tierschuetzer-fordern-verbot-kuhg...

Scubabear68 3y ago

+1 on the Catio, we built a really large one years ago (16' wide x 8' deep x 10' high) against our house with a convenient window with a flap cut in the window screen. It has a small tree growing out of it and some flowers and plants, with a few different levels. Cats love it, especially when the odd bird wanders in through the welded wire.

BillyTheMage 3y ago
Any design tips on what makes a good space that cats like?
- scrps 3y ago
  Lots of views, fresh air if possible, warm spots for the cat to sleep and more than one, some place with either wildlife and/or human activity, and of course scratching pads/tower. Granted, I do all of this and my cat (a gift from the pandemic someone dumped on the side of a mountain for me to find, despite not wanting to be a pet owner, thanks humans!) still manages to find a way to sleep on equipment I don't want to have to replace... Edit: typo
- Scubabear68 3y ago
  Go vertical if you have the room. Put in lots of ramps and places to perch. They like grass and small plants. For construction, we did a two by four frame with welded wire covering it. The welded wire is very secure but still allows a nice view, and is pretty cheap. If you have a Tractor Supply store near you in US) they have it.

pixl97 3y ago

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

KerrAvon 3y ago
Gentle reminder that The Oatmeal is not a reliable source for such information. Dude is far too credulous.

the__alchemist 3y ago

Your points are legit. Anecdotally with a reasonable sample size, outdoor cats are chiller; indoor ones tend to be neurotic and need more attention.

darth_avocado 3y ago

There’s outdoor cats and there’s indoor cats. Some cats thrive being inside and love it, others are miserable when inside and will frequently try to escape. I agree that they’re mini serial killers and have an impact on local ecosystems, but let’s be honest, in most cities, the local ecosystem is just full of invasives (rats, pigeons etc.). Ultimately look at what your cat prefers and let it do what it wants. That’s the only way to ensure longevity.

MarcScott 3y ago

But I bought my cats specifically to do the job they were bred for, which is to catch vermin (rats and mice). They're cute pets as well, but that's not what we selectively bred cats to be. The problem is that humans are invasive; stockpiling rubbish, building grain silos, and creating environments where rats and mice can hide and not be caught by natural predators. If you live in a country where wildcats, or other larger predators, are indigenous, then I don't see the problem in letting them outside.

Lord-Jobo 3y ago
Having cats specifically for rodent control is an exception but it's also important to recognize that it makes you and your cat a 1/20,000 exception. The vast vast vast majority of people who own outdoor cats are not doing it for rodent control.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  > The vast vast vast majority of people who own outdoor cats are not doing it for rodent control. Where I live on the country side cats hunting mice and rat is like the first or second argument for having them when speaking to the owners. Of my 6 neighbors, three have cats, so I don't have to though. When I lived in the city, the cat owners were complaining the cats caught mice, not bragging. But city houses also take damage from mice, so I guess it might be a mindset thing.
Snow_Falls 3y ago
Cats specifically are invasive species that decimate bird populations.

marssaxman 3y ago

Indoor cats may live longer lives, but I'm not convinced they are happier about it. I wonder what the effect on average human lifespan might be if people were routinely confined to assisted-living facilities for the duration of their adult lives. How many additional years might one gain if you faced no physical risks and experienced regular medical monitoring and treatment? Somehow I doubt many people would opt for that lifestyle, regardless.

SoftTalker 3y ago
I've seen assisted living facilities, I think I'd rather be dead than have to live in one. Longer life is not automatically worth any tradeoff.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  In this case, the tradeoff is not made by the cat, but by the human. Just like a lot of the time the decision to move someone to an assisted living facility is made by the family not the person.
- dangus 3y ago
  A loving home isn't a good analogy to a sad badly-managed assisted living facility for a cat. If you play with your cat, provide self-play toys and areas to climb and scratch, feed your cat good quality food, and give them cozy places to enjoy in your home they're visibly happy and content.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Snow_Falls 3y ago
Cats don't have hopes and dreams to be crushed, we can hardly compare cats to people.
- dangus 3y ago
  Yeah, I mean, for the record, I'd absolutely love being a house cat. No job, all my meals provided, never any bad weather or threats to deal with, and I have a huge playground of a house all to myself. Would you rather be an Emperor Penguin freezing your ass off in the artic making an 100 mile nesting migration?