5 ms·

MDMA in particular has such obvious usefulness for relationship/marriage counseling therapy. After many years of experimenting with pretty much every conventio

MDMA in particular has such obvious usefulness for relationship/marriage counseling therapy. After many years of experimenting with pretty much every conventional and 'research' drug, MDMA is the only one that stands out to me personally as having a lasting impact on how I view the world.

verisimi 3y ago
[flagged]
- Teever 3y ago
  That's a needlessly pessimistic way of looking at this. Some marriages last decades, and over decades of life severe strains in interpersonal relationships let alone ones as intense as marriage can arise. MDMA has been proven helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives. If it can help people who want to stay together actually stay together I think that's a great thing and is something that we should promote in the context of couples counselling.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    Perhaps yours is a needlessly optimistic way to look at things. Lasting for decades might not be a good thing. I know this is an unpopular opinion, and it is absolutely fine by me for others to do exactly as they see fit, but I really do think that if you have to change yourself, via the use of drugs, this can only be a wrong answer. Perhaps it is acceptable in an emergency as a short term solution. The reason I say this, is that if you really have made structural errors with your life, or have simply changed, it is fine to admit the failure and move on. There's no point in accommodating yourself to a relationship that is broken, via the use of drugs. You are simply prolonging the pain you inflict on yourself and on the other person in the relationship. Relationships can end, and that's ok. Better for everyone probably, in the long run.
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      The takes are neither pessimistic nor optimistic, but simplistic IMHO. MDMA is researched for instance to treat war veterans with PTSD. If that works and now your marriage works too, what’s wrong with that? (I too, strongly believe there are times for cutting your losses instead of molding yourself into someone else’s preferred shape. But not all relational problems are like that!)
      - verisimi 3y ago
        No doubt there are exceptional cases for taking a drug. But promotion of mdma as a solution to relationship problems seems unhinged. That's what I object to. Downvote away!
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Right. Is it the case that two broken people are just numbing themselves and staying in a broken relationship with the help of drugs, or is it the case that MDMA is able to heal people and their relationships, so the people and relationships are healed from past traumas and they're not staying in something that doesn't serve them anymore. If you have to be high to stay together because you hate each other, that's unhealthy and the drugs aren't helping. If the drugs let you see past the bullshit and that you really do love each other, I say take those drugs.
    - Teever 3y ago
      Yes, it is fine to move on. But it's also fine to want to stay and fix these things. > There's no point in accommodating yourself to a relationship that is broken, via the use of drugs. How do you feel about drug use in general? It seems to me that it isn't so much that you're critical of therapeutic drug use in a couples counselling context so much as you're opposed to drug use entirely? Is that accurate?
      - verisimi 3y ago
        No. I'm fine for people do drugs, if that's what they want to do. Their life, their choice. As long as they aren't harming anyone else. Do drugs recreationally if you like, with the person you're in a relationship with - no problem. I'm saying you shouldn't take drugs to change yourself to accommodate something that you already know makes you unhappy. To me, it sounds (roughly) equivalent to getting drunk to deal with a broken arm - it's not really a solution that is going to work in the long run. Re fixing things, of course one should try this! But if the fix is to take drugs... either you don't know what 'fixing' means (and, imo, it's 'talking things through') or, if you have tried talking and that failed, the relationship is probably already irredeemably broken. No need to contort yourself further, take your loss. Put simply, I think you need to concentrate yourself, not dilute yourself for the benefit of others. You should do what makes you stronger. And happiness is your guide, or in reverse, unhappiness is your guide of what not to do. Buying happiness in a pill is not the long term answer.
  - markdown 3y ago
    > proven helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives. If this sounds good to anyone here but you don't want to do anything illegal, drink kava instead. It's a food that's legal in the US (regulated as a dietary supplement), but it's perfect for open communication and empathy. r/kava is a great resource for anyone interested.
    - ngai_aku 3y ago
      Interesting take. I’ve mixed a couple of times and thought it was enjoyable, but I didn’t feel like it was much more than a pleasant but subtle buzz. Comparing it to MDMA feels like a stretch
      - markdown 3y ago
        > Comparing it to MDMA feels like a stretch I agree. I wasn't really comparing it to MDMA. I was pointing out that what GP commenter was looking for can be found with kava: > helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives.

verisimi 3y ago

[flagged]

Teever 3y ago
That's a needlessly pessimistic way of looking at this. Some marriages last decades, and over decades of life severe strains in interpersonal relationships let alone ones as intense as marriage can arise. MDMA has been proven helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives. If it can help people who want to stay together actually stay together I think that's a great thing and is something that we should promote in the context of couples counselling.
- verisimi 3y ago
  Perhaps yours is a needlessly optimistic way to look at things. Lasting for decades might not be a good thing. I know this is an unpopular opinion, and it is absolutely fine by me for others to do exactly as they see fit, but I really do think that if you have to change yourself, via the use of drugs, this can only be a wrong answer. Perhaps it is acceptable in an emergency as a short term solution. The reason I say this, is that if you really have made structural errors with your life, or have simply changed, it is fine to admit the failure and move on. There's no point in accommodating yourself to a relationship that is broken, via the use of drugs. You are simply prolonging the pain you inflict on yourself and on the other person in the relationship. Relationships can end, and that's ok. Better for everyone probably, in the long run.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    The takes are neither pessimistic nor optimistic, but simplistic IMHO. MDMA is researched for instance to treat war veterans with PTSD. If that works and now your marriage works too, what’s wrong with that? (I too, strongly believe there are times for cutting your losses instead of molding yourself into someone else’s preferred shape. But not all relational problems are like that!)
    - verisimi 3y ago
      No doubt there are exceptional cases for taking a drug. But promotion of mdma as a solution to relationship problems seems unhinged. That's what I object to. Downvote away!
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Right. Is it the case that two broken people are just numbing themselves and staying in a broken relationship with the help of drugs, or is it the case that MDMA is able to heal people and their relationships, so the people and relationships are healed from past traumas and they're not staying in something that doesn't serve them anymore. If you have to be high to stay together because you hate each other, that's unhealthy and the drugs aren't helping. If the drugs let you see past the bullshit and that you really do love each other, I say take those drugs.
  - Teever 3y ago
    Yes, it is fine to move on. But it's also fine to want to stay and fix these things. > There's no point in accommodating yourself to a relationship that is broken, via the use of drugs. How do you feel about drug use in general? It seems to me that it isn't so much that you're critical of therapeutic drug use in a couples counselling context so much as you're opposed to drug use entirely? Is that accurate?
    - verisimi 3y ago
      No. I'm fine for people do drugs, if that's what they want to do. Their life, their choice. As long as they aren't harming anyone else. Do drugs recreationally if you like, with the person you're in a relationship with - no problem. I'm saying you shouldn't take drugs to change yourself to accommodate something that you already know makes you unhappy. To me, it sounds (roughly) equivalent to getting drunk to deal with a broken arm - it's not really a solution that is going to work in the long run. Re fixing things, of course one should try this! But if the fix is to take drugs... either you don't know what 'fixing' means (and, imo, it's 'talking things through') or, if you have tried talking and that failed, the relationship is probably already irredeemably broken. No need to contort yourself further, take your loss. Put simply, I think you need to concentrate yourself, not dilute yourself for the benefit of others. You should do what makes you stronger. And happiness is your guide, or in reverse, unhappiness is your guide of what not to do. Buying happiness in a pill is not the long term answer.
- markdown 3y ago
  > proven helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives. If this sounds good to anyone here but you don't want to do anything illegal, drink kava instead. It's a food that's legal in the US (regulated as a dietary supplement), but it's perfect for open communication and empathy. r/kava is a great resource for anyone interested.
  - ngai_aku 3y ago
    Interesting take. I’ve mixed a couple of times and thought it was enjoyable, but I didn’t feel like it was much more than a pleasant but subtle buzz. Comparing it to MDMA feels like a stretch
    - markdown 3y ago
      > Comparing it to MDMA feels like a stretch I agree. I wasn't really comparing it to MDMA. I was pointing out that what GP commenter was looking for can be found with kava: > helpful in breaking down barriers of communication and allowing people to talk about difficult things, and allows people to develop stronger empathy for the people in their lives.