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> Some people wish for non hallucinogenic 5-HT2A activation and that seems like a bizzarely detached from reality pipe dream. This is actually an area of acti

> Some people wish for non hallucinogenic 5-HT2A activation and that seems like a bizzarely detached from reality pipe dream. This is actually an area of active research with promising developments, FWIW: https://psychedelichealth.co.uk/2023/06/13/non-hallucinogenic-psilocybin-derivative-clinical-candidate/ https://psychedelichealth.co.uk/2023/06/13/non-hallucinogeni...

binary132 3y ago
It's hard for me to understand what is meant by "similar characteristics to psilocybin" without hallucinogenic effects. Is the idea that the hyperreality of the subconscious / inner life would dominate conscious perception, but without the confusing or distressing associated overload of the physical senses, e.g. seeing or hearing things that aren't there? It's almost impossible to imagine the one aspect of the dreamlike state dominating the mind without the disruption of the other, but even if the senses are perfectly unperturbed I would think the unconstrained and disordered psyche alone could be very upsetting or confusing.
- tbalsam 3y ago
  Yes I think this is it right here. Like, at a micro dose (or slightly above) level it maybe makes sense, but the raw characteristics of how psychedelics work will still be there. Maybe there's some way, who knows, but I don't think we're likely to find out up front, somewhat similar to trying to turn lead into gold just because, as it were (at least as best as I understand. :,(((( )
tbalsam 3y ago
Please read in context with the rest of the post! The idea is that it's very hard to raise the entropy of the brain without psychomometic effects as best as I understand, due to some fundamental informational qualities of those processes. It's like looking for a flu medicine and judging it by if makes a fever go down because a fever is an arbitrary human-measurable metric. Has some quality of life impacts but is second player to the actual health impacts of conditions including fever (especially ones with long term impacts) and is extremely superficial. I think that's the idea, maybe you can avoid visual cortex stuff but you can't magically get no psychomometic effects unless somehow the medication is perfectly shooting some kind of entropic gap. I'm sure it's possible but I feel like it's much better as an accidentally discovered thing or a second or third generation medication thing, not a first priority, if that makes sense.

binary132 3y ago

It's hard for me to understand what is meant by "similar characteristics to psilocybin" without hallucinogenic effects. Is the idea that the hyperreality of the subconscious / inner life would dominate conscious perception, but without the confusing or distressing associated overload of the physical senses, e.g. seeing or hearing things that aren't there? It's almost impossible to imagine the one aspect of the dreamlike state dominating the mind without the disruption of the other, but even if the senses are perfectly unperturbed I would think the unconstrained and disordered psyche alone could be very upsetting or confusing.

tbalsam 3y ago
Yes I think this is it right here. Like, at a micro dose (or slightly above) level it maybe makes sense, but the raw characteristics of how psychedelics work will still be there. Maybe there's some way, who knows, but I don't think we're likely to find out up front, somewhat similar to trying to turn lead into gold just because, as it were (at least as best as I understand. :,(((( )

tbalsam 3y ago

Please read in context with the rest of the post! The idea is that it's very hard to raise the entropy of the brain without psychomometic effects as best as I understand, due to some fundamental informational qualities of those processes. It's like looking for a flu medicine and judging it by if makes a fever go down because a fever is an arbitrary human-measurable metric. Has some quality of life impacts but is second player to the actual health impacts of conditions including fever (especially ones with long term impacts) and is extremely superficial. I think that's the idea, maybe you can avoid visual cortex stuff but you can't magically get no psychomometic effects unless somehow the medication is perfectly shooting some kind of entropic gap. I'm sure it's possible but I feel like it's much better as an accidentally discovered thing or a second or third generation medication thing, not a first priority, if that makes sense.