10 ms·

I had a friend in college who worked part-time at a shop that sold and installed audiophile gear. He was a music engineering major, so he was aware of how much

I had a friend in college who worked part-time at a shop that sold and installed audiophile gear. He was a music engineering major, so he was aware of how much of what they sold was snake oil. Example: a 3-foot RCA cable that sold for several thousand dollars. The jacks were gold-plated. Not just with ordinary gold, but "special" gold. From a particular mine in South Africa. He told me once "If I ever sell that cable, I don't know how I'll live with myself." One time he and another guy had just completed an installation in a very wealthy customer's home. Hundreds of thousands of dollars on an ultra-high-end amplifier, CD player, speakers, etc. He started playing one of the customer's CDs on the systems. The customer went on and on, lavishing praise at how "warm" and "crisp" his music sounded on the new system. Suddenly my friend's co-worker leaned over and whispered, "Do you hear that?..." My friend knew exactly what he was referring to: they had accidently wired the speakers out of phase.

seanhunter 3y ago
My favourite variant of this is high-end digital audio cables.[1] Presumably the ones are really spiky and the zeros are really round when you use such a cable. [1] yes this really does actually exist as a thing.
- paulmd 3y ago
  If USB-C has taught me anything it’s that higher signal integrity in more expensive cables is actually really a thing. I have usb-c devices which are so temperamental (razer kiyo pro) that they won’t run stable without actual thunderbolt cables. Even high-end fasgear 10gbps/100w cables aren’t good enough signal integrity or the camera will eventually freeze and crash. The extra thunderbolt shielding/better termination really does make a difference even if the pairs are not being used. Hdmi and DP cables also have a range of shielding and termination quality, and pushing more data through them will show the difference, especially in longer lengths that are at the limit of the spec. Everything looks good when you are only doing 1080p30, try doing 2160p120 on a tv or UWQHD 160 hz on a pc, with a max-length (2m) cable and tell me every cable is just as good. Even every DisplayPort 1.4 cable or hdmi 2.1 cable is not “as good” let alone a rando lower-tier cable with the older shielding. Oculink folks know damn well that not every cable is just as good either. Copper oculink cables are a fucking mess. I’m not saying Monster wasn’t ripping you off for some gold-plated connectors, especially back in 2000 when hdmi stated with 1.x in the name. But the reality is that if nothing else we have manifested the world where digital cable quality matters. And really the “hurr durr digital signals” thing has always been a little bit of an oversimplification, even as someone who’s said it before too. There isn’t a correlation with price in the high end, going from a $30 cable to a $150 cable doesn’t get you anything, but going from a $5 cable to a $30 cable you certainly do get better shielded cable and better termination if nothing else, and yes, it does make a difference when you are actually pushing the spec to the limit. You will definitely find out that not even all 10gbps usb-c or hdmi 2.1 UHBR cables are created equal let alone ye olde hdmi 1.3 bullshit cable.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    Two points: Digital audio, no matter how high quality and how many channels, uses vastly less bandwidth than even the lowest quality video signal these days. At absolute best, lossless audio with 16 channels is still less total bandwidth than even USB2.0 speeds. It’s just not fast. Although signal integrity matters, signal integrity in digital signals is almost always not silent degradation. And often is extremely obvious degradation. So if your cable has problems, you know almost immediately (or, when it happens you know). Unlike analog audio, it either works or it doesn’t. In the marginal case you don’t just get worse sounding audio… you just don’t have audio periodically which sounds super obvious to the ear.
    - vvillena 3y ago
      You're about an order of magnitude wrong. USB2 can transport close to 200 channels at studio quality (24bit 96 Khz).
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        Why so aggressive? I didn’t make any claims other than less than USB2. And for reference, I was assuming 384 kHz, 32 bit depth, which would be 196 Mbps at 16 channels. You cannot even do 32 channels over USB2 which would be the next logical step.
        vvillena 3y ago
        Sorry you got offended, that wasn't my intention. Pointing out inaccuracies is not aggressive, and in this case, I was reinforcing your claim, by saying USB2 is not only capable of tens of audio channels, but hundreds. I was just adding context, and I'm happy you provided even more. 32/384 is indeed at the extreme top of digital audio signals, beyond what many people consider to be useful. Even in such cases, USB2 can still do the job, but most modern devices will use USB3 or Thunderbolt, simply to avoid issues and ensure enough headroom on the digital bus.
        CyberDildonics 3y ago
- navbaker 3y ago
  This is why you have to be careful to avoid 90 degree bends in high end wire like this so the ones don’t get jammed up and stop the flow of sound.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Nothing will top the $485 wooden volume knob: > Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved. Here is a test for all you Silver Rock owners. Try removing the bakelite knobs and listen. You will be shocked by this! The signature knobs will have an even greater effect…really amazing! The point here is the micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound). With the signature knobs micro vibrations from the C37 concept of wood, bronze and the lacquer itself compensate for the volume pots and provide (Good Vibrations) our ear/brain combination like to hear…way better sound!! Source: https://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.html https://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.h...
SoftTalker 3y ago
I get nerding out on stuff but I don't get doing it at the age of the guy in the story. I thought as one got older one started to see the foolishness in this sort of excess. You can't take it with you. And in the end you see what became of it. Split up and sold off to strangers for a fraction of what it cost.
- tux2bsd 3y ago
  [dead]
wiredfool 3y ago
I had a similar experience, though the other way around. I was listening to some speakers at a relatively high end store (they sold 10k$ CD player power supplies, along with a selection of more reasonable gear), where they'd only have one set of speakers in the room at a time to prevent passive effects on the sound. (which is sort of reasonable, but a lot of work). So they bring in the Magneplanars and the (incredibly inappropriate) amp I was interested in, wire them up, and within 5 seconds I know they're out of phase, and then in another 30 seconds, pretty strong clipping. Sales person was going on about how good they sounded.

seanhunter 3y ago

My favourite variant of this is high-end digital audio cables.[1] Presumably the ones are really spiky and the zeros are really round when you use such a cable. [1] yes this really does actually exist as a thing.

paulmd 3y ago
If USB-C has taught me anything it’s that higher signal integrity in more expensive cables is actually really a thing. I have usb-c devices which are so temperamental (razer kiyo pro) that they won’t run stable without actual thunderbolt cables. Even high-end fasgear 10gbps/100w cables aren’t good enough signal integrity or the camera will eventually freeze and crash. The extra thunderbolt shielding/better termination really does make a difference even if the pairs are not being used. Hdmi and DP cables also have a range of shielding and termination quality, and pushing more data through them will show the difference, especially in longer lengths that are at the limit of the spec. Everything looks good when you are only doing 1080p30, try doing 2160p120 on a tv or UWQHD 160 hz on a pc, with a max-length (2m) cable and tell me every cable is just as good. Even every DisplayPort 1.4 cable or hdmi 2.1 cable is not “as good” let alone a rando lower-tier cable with the older shielding. Oculink folks know damn well that not every cable is just as good either. Copper oculink cables are a fucking mess. I’m not saying Monster wasn’t ripping you off for some gold-plated connectors, especially back in 2000 when hdmi stated with 1.x in the name. But the reality is that if nothing else we have manifested the world where digital cable quality matters. And really the “hurr durr digital signals” thing has always been a little bit of an oversimplification, even as someone who’s said it before too. There isn’t a correlation with price in the high end, going from a $30 cable to a $150 cable doesn’t get you anything, but going from a $5 cable to a $30 cable you certainly do get better shielded cable and better termination if nothing else, and yes, it does make a difference when you are actually pushing the spec to the limit. You will definitely find out that not even all 10gbps usb-c or hdmi 2.1 UHBR cables are created equal let alone ye olde hdmi 1.3 bullshit cable.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  Two points: Digital audio, no matter how high quality and how many channels, uses vastly less bandwidth than even the lowest quality video signal these days. At absolute best, lossless audio with 16 channels is still less total bandwidth than even USB2.0 speeds. It’s just not fast. Although signal integrity matters, signal integrity in digital signals is almost always not silent degradation. And often is extremely obvious degradation. So if your cable has problems, you know almost immediately (or, when it happens you know). Unlike analog audio, it either works or it doesn’t. In the marginal case you don’t just get worse sounding audio… you just don’t have audio periodically which sounds super obvious to the ear.
  - vvillena 3y ago
    You're about an order of magnitude wrong. USB2 can transport close to 200 channels at studio quality (24bit 96 Khz).
    - Kirby64 3y ago
      Why so aggressive? I didn’t make any claims other than less than USB2. And for reference, I was assuming 384 kHz, 32 bit depth, which would be 196 Mbps at 16 channels. You cannot even do 32 channels over USB2 which would be the next logical step.
      - vvillena 3y ago
        Sorry you got offended, that wasn't my intention. Pointing out inaccuracies is not aggressive, and in this case, I was reinforcing your claim, by saying USB2 is not only capable of tens of audio channels, but hundreds. I was just adding context, and I'm happy you provided even more. 32/384 is indeed at the extreme top of digital audio signals, beyond what many people consider to be useful. Even in such cases, USB2 can still do the job, but most modern devices will use USB3 or Thunderbolt, simply to avoid issues and ensure enough headroom on the digital bus.
      - CyberDildonics 3y ago
navbaker 3y ago
This is why you have to be careful to avoid 90 degree bends in high end wire like this so the ones don’t get jammed up and stop the flow of sound.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Nothing will top the $485 wooden volume knob: > Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved. Here is a test for all you Silver Rock owners. Try removing the bakelite knobs and listen. You will be shocked by this! The signature knobs will have an even greater effect…really amazing! The point here is the micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound). With the signature knobs micro vibrations from the C37 concept of wood, bronze and the lacquer itself compensate for the volume pots and provide (Good Vibrations) our ear/brain combination like to hear…way better sound!! Source: https://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.html https://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.h...

SoftTalker 3y ago

I get nerding out on stuff but I don't get doing it at the age of the guy in the story. I thought as one got older one started to see the foolishness in this sort of excess. You can't take it with you. And in the end you see what became of it. Split up and sold off to strangers for a fraction of what it cost.

tux2bsd 3y ago
[dead]

wiredfool 3y ago

I had a similar experience, though the other way around. I was listening to some speakers at a relatively high end store (they sold 10k$ CD player power supplies, along with a selection of more reasonable gear), where they'd only have one set of speakers in the room at a time to prevent passive effects on the sound. (which is sort of reasonable, but a lot of work). So they bring in the Magneplanars and the (incredibly inappropriate) amp I was interested in, wire them up, and within 5 seconds I know they're out of phase, and then in another 30 seconds, pretty strong clipping. Sales person was going on about how good they sounded.