12 ms·

I have a question. Do they always ask for passport scan and credit card photograph, or I fall under some special category which makes me suspicious? Going by t

by irahul 15y ago

I have a question. Do they always ask for passport scan and credit card photograph, or I fall under some special category which makes me suspicious? Going by the rave reviews, I ordered the 512 MB vps to evaluate, and was greeted by an email asking for my passport and credit card photograph. I don't feel like doing business with them anymore. I am a bit uncomfortable about sharing my credit card info. But since I already have shared my card number, I figure I can attach the card photo. And even if I comply with the ridiculous request of providing a photograph of my credit card, most of the times I use a virtual credit card. My bank lets me creates virtual credit cards and link with my card/account. The card doesn't exist physically and it lets me reset the transaction limit. I reset the transaction limit before making a transaction ensuring I can't be overcharged. They would turn me down because I am concerned about my financial transactions?

Flam 15y ago
It's normal. Myself and another person I know had to do it too.
vladd 15y ago
> The would turn me down because I am concerned about my financial transactions? No, they would turn you down because you cannot present to them their risk guarantee criteria that enable their low prices.
- irahul 15y ago
  > No, they would turn you down because you cannot present to them their risk guarantee criteria that enable their low prices. What kind of risks are they putting up with without a photograph of my credit card? Stolen cards? People deactivate their cards when the cards are lost. And if people don't, then the thief has an active credit card and can very well send the copy. I won't make my payments? How does the photo of my credit card help? It makes sure I have a credit card - it doesn't make sure you can make transactions on my card(limit reached, card blocked, payment disputed) etc.
  - vladd 15y ago
    Banks might be less likely to reverse a charge if you have a photo of the credit card and an ID of its holder. [citation needed] My company provides a free online form service and I've banged my head regarding the abuse that hits the fans: Nigerian spammers using our service to do identity theft, disguised password collection forms, harvester accounts being automatically created on a daily basis and what not. I'd hate to imagine what Hetzner has to put up with. Ultimately it's their choice to set their abuse verification threshold and their prices, and your choice to accept it or go elsewhere.
    - irahul 15y ago
      I don't see how your speculations about how they are using the documents relates with your initial claim of risk mitigation and especially, low cost. > Banks might be less likely to reverse a charge if you have a photo of the credit card and an ID of its holder. [citation needed?] Yes, citation needed. Another situation would be you have the photo of my credit card and my ID and you charge me 100x in place of x. What is the bank to do when I dispute the payment? Let it slide because you have the photocopies? Also, there mail says: > We are going to save the document submitted for a period of 3 weeks. So either they are lying(I haven't read the t&c though; quoting from the mail) or having the copies doesn't do anything. > Ultimately it's their choice to set their abuse verification threshold and their prices, and your choice to accept it or go elsewhere. Oh they are free to be as ridiculous as they want to be. That doesn't change the fact that I can call the practice ridiculous, irrespective of whether I am doing business with them or not.
deadwait 15y ago
when i ordered, i shared my apprehension with the credit card phone, but they wanted only the last 4 numbers to be visible, i blacked out the other numbers with mspaint and sent it across.
abhaga 15y ago
I am from India, have a server with them and was not asked for any documentation. May be it is a recent change. Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. I am also surprised by this requirement.
- irahul 15y ago
  > Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. I am also surprised by this requirement. I am still not fully convinced, but this post makes some good points. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3899929 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3899929
- jsnell 15y ago
  It's definitely not a recent change, they required a copy of a photo ID as early as 2005 when I got my first server there. Don't remember being asked for a credit card scan ever though.
  - petercooper 15y ago
    I didn't have to give them anything (I'm in the UK) but a client in Australia did. So maybe there's an EU thing at play (or just a risk assessment based on countries' fraud levels).
  - dkersten 15y ago
    I got my server just over two years ago and they requested a copy of photo ID, but not of credit card.
- alexbowman 15y ago
  >Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. It is not zero risk, the risk is quite high. A credit card company may reverse a transaction reported as fraudulent unless they perceived the fraud report was incorrect / steps had not been taken to prevent fraudulent card use. Web servers are good resources for uses which are often funded by fraud.
nirvana 15y ago
TLDR: You do almost the same thing in the USA, only it is automated. We have the patriot act which requires collecting a lot of info-- the US has centralized databases (namely credit reports) that allow easy authentication of people. Outside the USA, they don't have the patriot act, but they have a lot of similar laws, and thus collecting a copy of your passport lets them know you're not an identity thief and lets them satisfy "know your customer" laws in their country. In the US the same thing can be authenticated by running a check thru a database, though in the US the law doesn't care whether you're an identity theif (which is why you don't need photographic proof) but whether you're on a terrorist list... the latter can be done just from the info you give. They are the target of people who want to run torrent servers, criminal irc chat rooms, and stuff like that. These are not the customers they want. They also don't' want to incur the cost of setting up a dedicated server for someone whose just giving them stolen credit card info. Since often stolen credit card info is distributed in text form, the theifs don't have access to the physical card. Showing you have access to the physical card and the physical passport does not prove that you didn't steal both from the rightful owner, but eliminates those people who just bought a list of credit card numbers. While stolen cards are often cancelled relatively quickly, this can take anywhere from days to weeks to process thru, by which time they will have incurred the real labor costs (that they charge the 150 euro setup fee to cover) only to have those charges reversed because the card was stolen. One thing that was illuminating for me as an american is the discovery that our banking system is set up very differently from many other countries. Thus things that are easy for us, are not as easy for them. (Taking a credit card is harder for a merchant outside the USA because the credit card system originated in the USA under the US legal structure. This is why shopping online is less common in, say, south america, than it is in north america.) Other things that are hard for us are easy for them-- if you want to give your friend $20, you just log into your bank and send him the money. The entire purpose of paypal was replaced outside the US as a simple feature on bank websites. Asking for a photo of your passport and credit card is not really out of line. I understand why you would be hesitant to give these things up as an american-- when I first started doing business internationally, I was very hesitant as well. After awhile, though, you realize that trustworthy businesses are trustworthy. The data I'll be putting on hetzner servers is much more valuable than the image of my passport (Which every low paid border agent at a third world country I visit gets a copy of.) If I can't trust them with my passport image, can I trust them with my data?
lis 15y ago
The first reason has been explained already: They are afraid of (online) credit card and identify theft. The second reason, why a lot of people (especially from Germany) will not be asked to provide a scan, is that they have a credit history in Germany. It is really common to check your credit history first. The german credit agency they are using probably has no information about you, that is why Hetzner wants to make sure that you are not trying to defraud them. It can be really tough to buy stuff online in Germany if the local credit agencies don't have information about your credit history.
parimm 15y ago
>My bank lets me creates virtual credit cards and link with my card/account. What bank are you using?
- irahul 15y ago
  ICICI

by irahul 15y ago

Flam 15y ago

It's normal. Myself and another person I know had to do it too.

vladd 15y ago

> The would turn me down because I am concerned about my financial transactions? No, they would turn you down because you cannot present to them their risk guarantee criteria that enable their low prices.

irahul 15y ago
> No, they would turn you down because you cannot present to them their risk guarantee criteria that enable their low prices. What kind of risks are they putting up with without a photograph of my credit card? Stolen cards? People deactivate their cards when the cards are lost. And if people don't, then the thief has an active credit card and can very well send the copy. I won't make my payments? How does the photo of my credit card help? It makes sure I have a credit card - it doesn't make sure you can make transactions on my card(limit reached, card blocked, payment disputed) etc.
- vladd 15y ago
  Banks might be less likely to reverse a charge if you have a photo of the credit card and an ID of its holder. [citation needed] My company provides a free online form service and I've banged my head regarding the abuse that hits the fans: Nigerian spammers using our service to do identity theft, disguised password collection forms, harvester accounts being automatically created on a daily basis and what not. I'd hate to imagine what Hetzner has to put up with. Ultimately it's their choice to set their abuse verification threshold and their prices, and your choice to accept it or go elsewhere.
  - irahul 15y ago
    I don't see how your speculations about how they are using the documents relates with your initial claim of risk mitigation and especially, low cost. > Banks might be less likely to reverse a charge if you have a photo of the credit card and an ID of its holder. [citation needed?] Yes, citation needed. Another situation would be you have the photo of my credit card and my ID and you charge me 100x in place of x. What is the bank to do when I dispute the payment? Let it slide because you have the photocopies? Also, there mail says: > We are going to save the document submitted for a period of 3 weeks. So either they are lying(I haven't read the t&c though; quoting from the mail) or having the copies doesn't do anything. > Ultimately it's their choice to set their abuse verification threshold and their prices, and your choice to accept it or go elsewhere. Oh they are free to be as ridiculous as they want to be. That doesn't change the fact that I can call the practice ridiculous, irrespective of whether I am doing business with them or not.

deadwait 15y ago

when i ordered, i shared my apprehension with the credit card phone, but they wanted only the last 4 numbers to be visible, i blacked out the other numbers with mspaint and sent it across.

abhaga 15y ago

I am from India, have a server with them and was not asked for any documentation. May be it is a recent change. Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. I am also surprised by this requirement.

irahul 15y ago
> Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. I am also surprised by this requirement. I am still not fully convinced, but this post makes some good points. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3899929 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3899929
jsnell 15y ago
It's definitely not a recent change, they required a copy of a photo ID as early as 2005 when I got my first server there. Don't remember being asked for a credit card scan ever though.
- petercooper 15y ago
  I didn't have to give them anything (I'm in the UK) but a client in Australia did. So maybe there's an EU thing at play (or just a risk assessment based on countries' fraud levels).
- dkersten 15y ago
  I got my server just over two years ago and they requested a copy of photo ID, but not of credit card.
alexbowman 15y ago
>Given that you pay for the server in advance, a VPS is essentially zero risk for them. It is not zero risk, the risk is quite high. A credit card company may reverse a transaction reported as fraudulent unless they perceived the fraud report was incorrect / steps had not been taken to prevent fraudulent card use. Web servers are good resources for uses which are often funded by fraud.

nirvana 15y ago

TLDR: You do almost the same thing in the USA, only it is automated. We have the patriot act which requires collecting a lot of info-- the US has centralized databases (namely credit reports) that allow easy authentication of people. Outside the USA, they don't have the patriot act, but they have a lot of similar laws, and thus collecting a copy of your passport lets them know you're not an identity thief and lets them satisfy "know your customer" laws in their country. In the US the same thing can be authenticated by running a check thru a database, though in the US the law doesn't care whether you're an identity theif (which is why you don't need photographic proof) but whether you're on a terrorist list... the latter can be done just from the info you give. They are the target of people who want to run torrent servers, criminal irc chat rooms, and stuff like that. These are not the customers they want. They also don't' want to incur the cost of setting up a dedicated server for someone whose just giving them stolen credit card info. Since often stolen credit card info is distributed in text form, the theifs don't have access to the physical card. Showing you have access to the physical card and the physical passport does not prove that you didn't steal both from the rightful owner, but eliminates those people who just bought a list of credit card numbers. While stolen cards are often cancelled relatively quickly, this can take anywhere from days to weeks to process thru, by which time they will have incurred the real labor costs (that they charge the 150 euro setup fee to cover) only to have those charges reversed because the card was stolen. One thing that was illuminating for me as an american is the discovery that our banking system is set up very differently from many other countries. Thus things that are easy for us, are not as easy for them. (Taking a credit card is harder for a merchant outside the USA because the credit card system originated in the USA under the US legal structure. This is why shopping online is less common in, say, south america, than it is in north america.) Other things that are hard for us are easy for them-- if you want to give your friend $20, you just log into your bank and send him the money. The entire purpose of paypal was replaced outside the US as a simple feature on bank websites. Asking for a photo of your passport and credit card is not really out of line. I understand why you would be hesitant to give these things up as an american-- when I first started doing business internationally, I was very hesitant as well. After awhile, though, you realize that trustworthy businesses are trustworthy. The data I'll be putting on hetzner servers is much more valuable than the image of my passport (Which every low paid border agent at a third world country I visit gets a copy of.) If I can't trust them with my passport image, can I trust them with my data?

lis 15y ago

The first reason has been explained already: They are afraid of (online) credit card and identify theft. The second reason, why a lot of people (especially from Germany) will not be asked to provide a scan, is that they have a credit history in Germany. It is really common to check your credit history first. The german credit agency they are using probably has no information about you, that is why Hetzner wants to make sure that you are not trying to defraud them. It can be really tough to buy stuff online in Germany if the local credit agencies don't have information about your credit history.

parimm 15y ago

>My bank lets me creates virtual credit cards and link with my card/account. What bank are you using?

irahul 15y ago
ICICI