4 ms·

"I am not car aficionado" This tells me that his level of understanding of the wide range of cars and features. Are their bad cars and bad UIs, yes. However,

"I am not car aficionado" This tells me that his level of understanding of the wide range of cars and features. Are their bad cars and bad UIs, yes. However, as someone who has been driving for 30 years, cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective). The only thing that is arguably "worse" is self servicability. However this is a function of complexity that exists throughout all technology. Also, these features that everyone on HN complains about.. they are being added because the general population wants them. There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. You wouldn't save any money because a lot of this tech is required for saftey and would be bespoke thus costing more.

jspash 3y ago
What gets me about newer cars is that they seem to be stolen at the same rate as they have always been (conjecture. i could be entirely mistaken). What with keyless entry, immobilizers and standard car alarms, I would expect them to be virtually theft-proof nowadays.
- astura 3y ago
  Motor vehicle thefts look down to me https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-ve...
cowpig 3y ago
> cars are better in every way now than they were before The author listed a bunch of ways that they are not. Perhaps it would be more interesting to address those directly
hotpotamus 3y ago
> There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. I really don't get this - just put a space in the dash where I can stick a phone that charges it and connects to the car audio. I have an old GM car with Carplay that all still works pretty well, but it's basically just a second screen for my phone and as such I barely use it.
ramraj07 3y ago
You know who else is not a car aficionado? Most people in the world. I was hoping you might say something erudite about the engine timings since you knocked the author for not being a car expert and all you were able to say was “screens are important for safety” like what safety?
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  They also don’t seem too worried about self-serviceability, when in my experience that’s all the car aficionados in my life care about is modifying their cars to their own specifications.
- chikitabanana 3y ago
  not him but backup cameras require screens.
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
> However this is a function of complexity that exists throughout all technology. To a degree, yes, but auto manufacturers are all too willing to make self-servicing difficult. They only make money when you buy a new car after all. We also see this with, well, almost every other field. > they are being added because the general population wants them. Much like phones with unremovable batteries leading to slimmer devices, I can only imagine this is a product of marketing convincing consumers of their desires, rather than them actually requesting all of that. It doesn’t even really make sense; why would the consumer want all of that when they’re not even using it the vast majority of the time in the vehicle?
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  The simplest fix is to require oems to include on board diagnostics on par with dealership tools.
downut 3y ago
"However, as someone who has been driving for 30 years, cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective)." Right. Sure. 2001 Tundra V8 owner here, and you're just flat out wrong. Maybe you've had uniquely bad judgement in the vehicles you've acquired over the last 30 years. It happens.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  >2001 Tundra V8 owner here, and you're just flat out wrong. That's not even considered a "car".
  - downut 3y ago
    Haven't driven in the suburbs and beyond, I'm guessing. A lot of places a PU is more common than, um, a "car". Most quite a bit bigger than my Tundra, too.
    - Hamuko 3y ago
      I live in a suburb. I just don't live in an American one.
LightBug1 3y ago
I am a car aficionado and, while you're right in terms of improvements, I'd argue that the factors the OP has highlighted are absolutely correct and overwhelm the those improvements. Especially cars from the last 10 years. Recent cars are horrible appliances that are incredibly difficult to repair. So you're both right, but it didn't need to be that way. The manufacturers have royally screwed up the direction in which the industry has gone. And you say features are being added because the general population wants them. I'll revert to my go-to argument here. The general population want McDonald's too.
- hparadiz 3y ago
  My 2020 civic has turbo but also lane sensing, collision detection, cruise control that adjusts based on what's in front of me, and a bunch of other features. That's what I'm paying for. Sure I can't fix it myself but that's not the point. The car was hit while parked in its first few months and I was very scared that the repair wouldn't be good but turns out the body shop knew what it was doing and did everything correctly putting it back together like new. Insurance was billed about 6k since there were hundreds of parts that needed to be replaced. Do I even want to learn how to do all that myself? Nope. Cars are a utility for most people.
bborud 3y ago
They are better when they work. They are significanly worse when they break down. Which almost every car does at some pojnt. Every time they break there is a risk that fixing it is going to be so expensive a huge chunk of your investment is going to be lost. Or that you have to scrap your car because it isn't worth the risk in case something else breaks. Yes, modern cars are more comfortable, easier to use, and safer. I don't agree that they are more reliable since fixability is a factor in reliability.
lukas099 3y ago
> cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective). What about safety of people outside the cars? By this metric I believe they are getting worse.

jspash 3y ago

What gets me about newer cars is that they seem to be stolen at the same rate as they have always been (conjecture. i could be entirely mistaken). What with keyless entry, immobilizers and standard car alarms, I would expect them to be virtually theft-proof nowadays.

astura 3y ago
Motor vehicle thefts look down to me https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-ve...

cowpig 3y ago

> cars are better in every way now than they were before The author listed a bunch of ways that they are not. Perhaps it would be more interesting to address those directly

hotpotamus 3y ago

> There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. I really don't get this - just put a space in the dash where I can stick a phone that charges it and connects to the car audio. I have an old GM car with Carplay that all still works pretty well, but it's basically just a second screen for my phone and as such I barely use it.

ramraj07 3y ago

You know who else is not a car aficionado? Most people in the world. I was hoping you might say something erudite about the engine timings since you knocked the author for not being a car expert and all you were able to say was “screens are important for safety” like what safety?

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
They also don’t seem too worried about self-serviceability, when in my experience that’s all the car aficionados in my life care about is modifying their cars to their own specifications.
chikitabanana 3y ago
not him but backup cameras require screens.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago

> However this is a function of complexity that exists throughout all technology. To a degree, yes, but auto manufacturers are all too willing to make self-servicing difficult. They only make money when you buy a new car after all. We also see this with, well, almost every other field. > they are being added because the general population wants them. Much like phones with unremovable batteries leading to slimmer devices, I can only imagine this is a product of marketing convincing consumers of their desires, rather than them actually requesting all of that. It doesn’t even really make sense; why would the consumer want all of that when they’re not even using it the vast majority of the time in the vehicle?

calvinmorrison 3y ago
The simplest fix is to require oems to include on board diagnostics on par with dealership tools.

downut 3y ago

"However, as someone who has been driving for 30 years, cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective)." Right. Sure. 2001 Tundra V8 owner here, and you're just flat out wrong. Maybe you've had uniquely bad judgement in the vehicles you've acquired over the last 30 years. It happens.

Hamuko 3y ago
>2001 Tundra V8 owner here, and you're just flat out wrong. That's not even considered a "car".
- downut 3y ago
  Haven't driven in the suburbs and beyond, I'm guessing. A lot of places a PU is more common than, um, a "car". Most quite a bit bigger than my Tundra, too.
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    I live in a suburb. I just don't live in an American one.

LightBug1 3y ago

I am a car aficionado and, while you're right in terms of improvements, I'd argue that the factors the OP has highlighted are absolutely correct and overwhelm the those improvements. Especially cars from the last 10 years. Recent cars are horrible appliances that are incredibly difficult to repair. So you're both right, but it didn't need to be that way. The manufacturers have royally screwed up the direction in which the industry has gone. And you say features are being added because the general population wants them. I'll revert to my go-to argument here. The general population want McDonald's too.

hparadiz 3y ago
My 2020 civic has turbo but also lane sensing, collision detection, cruise control that adjusts based on what's in front of me, and a bunch of other features. That's what I'm paying for. Sure I can't fix it myself but that's not the point. The car was hit while parked in its first few months and I was very scared that the repair wouldn't be good but turns out the body shop knew what it was doing and did everything correctly putting it back together like new. Insurance was billed about 6k since there were hundreds of parts that needed to be replaced. Do I even want to learn how to do all that myself? Nope. Cars are a utility for most people.

bborud 3y ago

They are better when they work. They are significanly worse when they break down. Which almost every car does at some pojnt. Every time they break there is a risk that fixing it is going to be so expensive a huge chunk of your investment is going to be lost. Or that you have to scrap your car because it isn't worth the risk in case something else breaks. Yes, modern cars are more comfortable, easier to use, and safer. I don't agree that they are more reliable since fixability is a factor in reliability.

lukas099 3y ago

> cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective). What about safety of people outside the cars? By this metric I believe they are getting worse.