4 ms·

Have you looked at minivans? When my 3 were under 5 a couple years ago they all fit, with room for all the stuff. No, it's not sexy, but it's incredibly practic

Have you looked at minivans? When my 3 were under 5 a couple years ago they all fit, with room for all the stuff. No, it's not sexy, but it's incredibly practical.

liotier 3y ago
My 2014 Renault Traffic long box on wheels gets nine people and their luggage over 1100 kilometers on a single fuel tank... I don't understand SUV that weight double, cost double and only seat five people at half the range. I'll hopefully keep it for at least a decade or two - it is designed for much more demanding tasks than the about monthly family outings, the holidays and standing idle the rest of the time while I commute with my bicycle and shop with my cargo bicycle. I fail to see anything electric currently available that could replace that incredible efficiency. I hope that, by the time I'm ripe for replacing it, the technology and the market will have matured.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  "SUV that weight double, cost double and only seat five people at half the range." That's just not right. Minivans are typically as big, if not longer, and weigh more or less the same. As to cost, unless you're comparing the suburban, (relatively rare vehicle even in my corner of rich, suburbanite, 6 kids midwest) their cost is comparable. Ive been looking to buy a Sienna for over a year and I cant find one without dropping almost $70 k out the door. For that money I can get an expedition and have more space.
  - liotier 3y ago
    Renault Trafic in 9 seat configuration weights 1.8 tons - so yes, it is only one ton less than the average fuel-powered SUV... But the electric ones are much heavier. It costs 25k€ which gets a modest subcompact SUV or about half of a popular large one.
    - thsksbd 3y ago
      What do you mean by "ton" in either Kg or on lb (or stone for all I care). Like calories, ppl mess that unit up all the time (tonne, ton, short ton, long ton, etc). If you mean 1800 kg, my full size 3.3 L V6 Sorrento weighs less at 1724 Kg. So unless you're comparing a Renault to a GMC Suburban, which I must insist are rare, you're just nowhere near the right mass.
didgeoridoo 3y ago
Not enough ground clearance, at least until the latest KIA Carnival came out. I live in New England, land of unplowed roads and potholes. Even our old Saab would bottom out on the regular.
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  I guess that’s a local issue. I wonder why people who don’t have such clearance issues don’t choose minivans. I, for example, drove minivans in California for many years in mountain snow without issue.
  - pc86 3y ago
    We have just one kid on the way and would already buy a minivan if they weren't so hard to get. The waitlist on a Sienna is well over a year long. We have friends who put their names on the list in Q1 2022 and are still waiting "another 4 or 5 months."
  - ghaff 3y ago
    The difference between minivans and most SUVs (especially crossovers) that people buy isn't all that great, maybe 1-1.5 inches. Most SUVs aren't really high-clearance 4WD like a Jeep Rubicon is. You get into other issues like run-flats vs. standard tires and the lack of a full-size spare but even most relatively serious SUVs don't automatically come with full-size spares any longer and their factory jacks tend to be useless.
matthewowen 3y ago
I love my minivan but it doesn’t entirely solve the size issue: a Toyota Sienna is 7 inches longer than a Kia Telliride (one of the largest crossovers) and only six inches shorter than a Ford Expedition (which is a solid example of a traditional truck frame SUV)
- ghaff 3y ago
  There's a good argument that a lot of people buying 3-row SUVs would probably be better off with a minivan--which is what many of my whitewater paddling friends drive. But, as you say, they're mostly not actually smaller vehicles for the most part.
  - matthewowen 3y ago
    You do miss the ground clearance for some applications. Even just comparing to the old CRV we had, we drove that places you wouldn’t be able to take a minivan. But for internal capacity, so much better: one of the big things is that the much shorter hood makes it easier to maneuver and gives you more usable space from that extra length.
jmuguy 3y ago
I laugh every time I see ads for some giant, fuel inefficient, unsafe, ridiculous SUV advertising third row seating. Minivans are the answer to every question that ends in families buying a giant SUV right now but they’re not “cool”.
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  I bought a Honda Pilot because I occasionally seat 7, frequently haul lumber, pipe, etc. which that the guy say fold down seats are a boon, and need a tow package. Fits the bill. Could make a van work I suppose.
acomjean 3y ago
Minivans are super practical vehicles, with great engineering that get overlooked because they have a weird uncool stigma about them.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  > a weird uncool stigma about them would be easiest to just move the marketing dollars from the Mustang to the Sienna, but those dollars come from the markup over BOM that Mustang owners are willing and able to afford Sienna purchasers probably don't mind paying less for a stigma since their primary concern likely is carrying kids around, instead of advertising their ability to have them in the first place
- roland35 3y ago
  Minivans are super hard to buy right now - although demand probably isn't too high the supply is extremely limited. A minivan would be too big for my family's daily needs, but I love renting them for road trips. Even the older dodge caravan has great space and is a comfy ride for everyone.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- petre 3y ago
  Not so uncool when you stick all the kids, the dog and the luggage inside, two kayaks and two rigid SUP boards on the roof and three bikes on the back rack.
- pc86 3y ago
  Uncool to whom? Everyone I know who has even two kids wants one, and anyone with more than three already has one or is miserable constantly taking both vehicles everywhere. The waitlist on a Toyota Sienna is well over a year long. 1-year old models sell above new MSRP because you can get one today with 10k miles on it vs. putting your name on a list and waiting. And they're not cheap by any stretch. A base model Sienna is almost $40k. That's more than a year's income for 25% of households[0]. The Platinum starts at $15k more than that. [0] https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...
hotpotamus 3y ago
I once needed to haul a bunch of tile and my dad was out of town with his truck that I normally borrowed at the time. My grandmother offered the use of her minivan and I balked that there was no way it could handle the weight. We looked it up and it had something like over 1500 pounds of capacity which impressed me and I used it to get my tile. It was also quite comfortable for road trips. As you say though, they are not cool and so people will find reasons to dismiss them.
- z3phyr 3y ago
  Cool scientists and detectives roll around in Minivans with their telescope and listening devices.
calvinmorrison 3y ago
Minivans are awesome. My first car was a 800 dollar Ford Windstar I got from a touring band called Creekside. Had a "I believe Edward Snowden" sticker on it and only 4 seats. Quiet, spacious, Great sound system, V6, 4 captains chairs, room for our drums and amps. Cruised great. No maintainence in the 3 years I owned it. Fuel economy around 20 on a good day. Very comfortable. Seats popped out, tons of storage room. Low rear bumper / floor so you could easily load it. Prior to the Ford flex they were used by a lot of installers for these favorable features
sanderjd 3y ago
I have a family and live in a place that gets snowy. I would love an all wheel drive minivan that I could put good tires on. But that category is dominated by SUVs. My theory is that it's about making the model line up more efficient: SUVs can sell with both families and with image-conscious individuals. So rather than selling mini-vans to families and trucks to individuals who just think they're cool, sell SUVs to both groups.
jwells89 3y ago
My family had a used Chrysler Town and Country for getting around through the early 2000s. Great car. Its engine was a a notch or two above baseline which gave it plenty of power, plenty of room, drove well. Also if you needed to haul something large instead of kids just pop out as many seats as needed and suddenly you had van-like cargo space.

Have you looked at minivans? When my 3 were under 5 a couple years ago they all fit, with room for all the stuff. No, it's not sexy, but it's incredibly practical.

liotier 3y ago

My 2014 Renault Traffic long box on wheels gets nine people and their luggage over 1100 kilometers on a single fuel tank... I don't understand SUV that weight double, cost double and only seat five people at half the range. I'll hopefully keep it for at least a decade or two - it is designed for much more demanding tasks than the about monthly family outings, the holidays and standing idle the rest of the time while I commute with my bicycle and shop with my cargo bicycle. I fail to see anything electric currently available that could replace that incredible efficiency. I hope that, by the time I'm ripe for replacing it, the technology and the market will have matured.

thsksbd 3y ago
"SUV that weight double, cost double and only seat five people at half the range." That's just not right. Minivans are typically as big, if not longer, and weigh more or less the same. As to cost, unless you're comparing the suburban, (relatively rare vehicle even in my corner of rich, suburbanite, 6 kids midwest) their cost is comparable. Ive been looking to buy a Sienna for over a year and I cant find one without dropping almost $70 k out the door. For that money I can get an expedition and have more space.
- liotier 3y ago
  Renault Trafic in 9 seat configuration weights 1.8 tons - so yes, it is only one ton less than the average fuel-powered SUV... But the electric ones are much heavier. It costs 25k€ which gets a modest subcompact SUV or about half of a popular large one.
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    What do you mean by "ton" in either Kg or on lb (or stone for all I care). Like calories, ppl mess that unit up all the time (tonne, ton, short ton, long ton, etc). If you mean 1800 kg, my full size 3.3 L V6 Sorrento weighs less at 1724 Kg. So unless you're comparing a Renault to a GMC Suburban, which I must insist are rare, you're just nowhere near the right mass.

didgeoridoo 3y ago

Not enough ground clearance, at least until the latest KIA Carnival came out. I live in New England, land of unplowed roads and potholes. Even our old Saab would bottom out on the regular.

CogitoCogito 3y ago
I guess that’s a local issue. I wonder why people who don’t have such clearance issues don’t choose minivans. I, for example, drove minivans in California for many years in mountain snow without issue.
- pc86 3y ago
  We have just one kid on the way and would already buy a minivan if they weren't so hard to get. The waitlist on a Sienna is well over a year long. We have friends who put their names on the list in Q1 2022 and are still waiting "another 4 or 5 months."
- ghaff 3y ago
  The difference between minivans and most SUVs (especially crossovers) that people buy isn't all that great, maybe 1-1.5 inches. Most SUVs aren't really high-clearance 4WD like a Jeep Rubicon is. You get into other issues like run-flats vs. standard tires and the lack of a full-size spare but even most relatively serious SUVs don't automatically come with full-size spares any longer and their factory jacks tend to be useless.

matthewowen 3y ago

I love my minivan but it doesn’t entirely solve the size issue: a Toyota Sienna is 7 inches longer than a Kia Telliride (one of the largest crossovers) and only six inches shorter than a Ford Expedition (which is a solid example of a traditional truck frame SUV)

ghaff 3y ago
There's a good argument that a lot of people buying 3-row SUVs would probably be better off with a minivan--which is what many of my whitewater paddling friends drive. But, as you say, they're mostly not actually smaller vehicles for the most part.
- matthewowen 3y ago
  You do miss the ground clearance for some applications. Even just comparing to the old CRV we had, we drove that places you wouldn’t be able to take a minivan. But for internal capacity, so much better: one of the big things is that the much shorter hood makes it easier to maneuver and gives you more usable space from that extra length.

jmuguy 3y ago

I laugh every time I see ads for some giant, fuel inefficient, unsafe, ridiculous SUV advertising third row seating. Minivans are the answer to every question that ends in families buying a giant SUV right now but they’re not “cool”.

wizerdrobe 3y ago
I bought a Honda Pilot because I occasionally seat 7, frequently haul lumber, pipe, etc. which that the guy say fold down seats are a boon, and need a tow package. Fits the bill. Could make a van work I suppose.

acomjean 3y ago

Minivans are super practical vehicles, with great engineering that get overlooked because they have a weird uncool stigma about them.

jareklupinski 3y ago
> a weird uncool stigma about them would be easiest to just move the marketing dollars from the Mustang to the Sienna, but those dollars come from the markup over BOM that Mustang owners are willing and able to afford Sienna purchasers probably don't mind paying less for a stigma since their primary concern likely is carrying kids around, instead of advertising their ability to have them in the first place
roland35 3y ago
Minivans are super hard to buy right now - although demand probably isn't too high the supply is extremely limited. A minivan would be too big for my family's daily needs, but I love renting them for road trips. Even the older dodge caravan has great space and is a comfy ride for everyone.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
petre 3y ago
Not so uncool when you stick all the kids, the dog and the luggage inside, two kayaks and two rigid SUP boards on the roof and three bikes on the back rack.
pc86 3y ago
Uncool to whom? Everyone I know who has even two kids wants one, and anyone with more than three already has one or is miserable constantly taking both vehicles everywhere. The waitlist on a Toyota Sienna is well over a year long. 1-year old models sell above new MSRP because you can get one today with 10k miles on it vs. putting your name on a list and waiting. And they're not cheap by any stretch. A base model Sienna is almost $40k. That's more than a year's income for 25% of households[0]. The Platinum starts at $15k more than that. [0] https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...

hotpotamus 3y ago

I once needed to haul a bunch of tile and my dad was out of town with his truck that I normally borrowed at the time. My grandmother offered the use of her minivan and I balked that there was no way it could handle the weight. We looked it up and it had something like over 1500 pounds of capacity which impressed me and I used it to get my tile. It was also quite comfortable for road trips. As you say though, they are not cool and so people will find reasons to dismiss them.

z3phyr 3y ago
Cool scientists and detectives roll around in Minivans with their telescope and listening devices.

calvinmorrison 3y ago

Minivans are awesome. My first car was a 800 dollar Ford Windstar I got from a touring band called Creekside. Had a "I believe Edward Snowden" sticker on it and only 4 seats. Quiet, spacious, Great sound system, V6, 4 captains chairs, room for our drums and amps. Cruised great. No maintainence in the 3 years I owned it. Fuel economy around 20 on a good day. Very comfortable. Seats popped out, tons of storage room. Low rear bumper / floor so you could easily load it. Prior to the Ford flex they were used by a lot of installers for these favorable features

sanderjd 3y ago

I have a family and live in a place that gets snowy. I would love an all wheel drive minivan that I could put good tires on. But that category is dominated by SUVs. My theory is that it's about making the model line up more efficient: SUVs can sell with both families and with image-conscious individuals. So rather than selling mini-vans to families and trucks to individuals who just think they're cool, sell SUVs to both groups.

jwells89 3y ago

My family had a used Chrysler Town and Country for getting around through the early 2000s. Great car. Its engine was a a notch or two above baseline which gave it plenty of power, plenty of room, drove well. Also if you needed to haul something large instead of kids just pop out as many seats as needed and suddenly you had van-like cargo space.