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I have understood that the bronze age collapse was a climate fluke that resulted into famine, which did lead to military power balance change which did lead int

I have understood that the bronze age collapse was a climate fluke that resulted into famine, which did lead to military power balance change which did lead into trade route collapse.

hutzlibu 3y ago
I have understood, that this is the current most plausible theory, but not much is actually "understood" about that time and cultures. In most cases, we don't even know the name of the culture and they are named by the places where the first stuff has been found.
inglor_cz 3y ago
The Bronze Age Collapse is a very dark moment in history, both figuratively and literally. We don't know much about what happened back then. Excavations can show you that palaces were abandoned, but there is an enormous dearth of written records which would help with understanding what happened. In absence of such records, people of today will project their most favorite contemporary theory onto the ruins. On the right, I have certainly heard the idea that both the Bronze Age Collapse and the collapse of the Western Roman Empire were caused by too much immigration. On the left, climate is the word of the decade.
- dudeinjapan 3y ago
  I think it collapsed because they ran out of original content ideas and started making live action rehashes of previously popular cartoons.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    Now that is an idea that I could get behind. If the local cinema has "The Beast of Knossos XXXXIV", the natural reaction is just to burn it to the ground, and hey, once you start, why stop? (From a slightly more serious angle: the Nika Rebellion in 6th century Constantinople is a fascinating piece of history, chariot racing intertwined with politics etc. Imagine if baseball or hockey teams had their political parties or vice versa.)
    - Log_out_ 3y ago
      Invasion of the "seen it" people
    - dudeinjapan 3y ago
      Wow, Yankees/Red Sox fans look tame in comparison.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  That is interesting. I've never heard that 'immigration' was a possible cause. I know 'sea people's as part of it, just hadn't heard that spun as an anti-immigration argument. Didn't realize the 'right' had even managed to co-opt something like Bronze Age Collapse to promote anti-immigration. Since isn't a lot of studying history, about tracking 'immigration', the movement of peoples. People move around. It isn't bad, it is what actually happens. What would the world look like if during all of history, there was never any immigration? Wouldn't humans have died out. "If only they had built a wall to keep out those 'sea peoples', then today we would be living as good and just Hattusas". If it hadn't happened, would there even be a Jesus? or Christianity?
  - Lord-Jobo 3y ago
    Absolutely not. Without large scale immigration, a slightly important country you may be familiar with wouldn't exist at all. The one where so many of these absolutely rotten-brained zero tolerance takes on immigration become popular.
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      Can you snake a single significant figure in US politics who has actually advocated for zero immigration? Or are you saying zero-tolerance for illegal immigration? And if so, why would that be a bad thing?
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        "significant" is the key. How these arguments go is, I find a quote, then you say "not that person", or "that isn't what they meant", or "the law is wrong, it should be illegal". If 'valid immigration' is a-ok, then why produce so much false information re-casting it as 'illegal' in order to advocate stopping immigration? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/11/ron-desantis/debate-fact-check-ron-desantis-misleading-claim-th/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/11/ron-desant... https://www.politifact.com/immigration/ https://www.politifact.com/immigration/
- adrian_b 3y ago
  In many cases there is evidence that the palaces and cities were not just abandoned, but they were burned. So this makes plausible that the abandoning was not something voluntary.

I have understood that the bronze age collapse was a climate fluke that resulted into famine, which did lead to military power balance change which did lead into trade route collapse.

hutzlibu 3y ago

I have understood, that this is the current most plausible theory, but not much is actually "understood" about that time and cultures. In most cases, we don't even know the name of the culture and they are named by the places where the first stuff has been found.

inglor_cz 3y ago

The Bronze Age Collapse is a very dark moment in history, both figuratively and literally. We don't know much about what happened back then. Excavations can show you that palaces were abandoned, but there is an enormous dearth of written records which would help with understanding what happened. In absence of such records, people of today will project their most favorite contemporary theory onto the ruins. On the right, I have certainly heard the idea that both the Bronze Age Collapse and the collapse of the Western Roman Empire were caused by too much immigration. On the left, climate is the word of the decade.

dudeinjapan 3y ago
I think it collapsed because they ran out of original content ideas and started making live action rehashes of previously popular cartoons.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  Now that is an idea that I could get behind. If the local cinema has "The Beast of Knossos XXXXIV", the natural reaction is just to burn it to the ground, and hey, once you start, why stop? (From a slightly more serious angle: the Nika Rebellion in 6th century Constantinople is a fascinating piece of history, chariot racing intertwined with politics etc. Imagine if baseball or hockey teams had their political parties or vice versa.)
  - Log_out_ 3y ago
    Invasion of the "seen it" people
  - dudeinjapan 3y ago
    Wow, Yankees/Red Sox fans look tame in comparison.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
That is interesting. I've never heard that 'immigration' was a possible cause. I know 'sea people's as part of it, just hadn't heard that spun as an anti-immigration argument. Didn't realize the 'right' had even managed to co-opt something like Bronze Age Collapse to promote anti-immigration. Since isn't a lot of studying history, about tracking 'immigration', the movement of peoples. People move around. It isn't bad, it is what actually happens. What would the world look like if during all of history, there was never any immigration? Wouldn't humans have died out. "If only they had built a wall to keep out those 'sea peoples', then today we would be living as good and just Hattusas". If it hadn't happened, would there even be a Jesus? or Christianity?
- Lord-Jobo 3y ago
  Absolutely not. Without large scale immigration, a slightly important country you may be familiar with wouldn't exist at all. The one where so many of these absolutely rotten-brained zero tolerance takes on immigration become popular.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    Can you snake a single significant figure in US politics who has actually advocated for zero immigration? Or are you saying zero-tolerance for illegal immigration? And if so, why would that be a bad thing?
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      "significant" is the key. How these arguments go is, I find a quote, then you say "not that person", or "that isn't what they meant", or "the law is wrong, it should be illegal". If 'valid immigration' is a-ok, then why produce so much false information re-casting it as 'illegal' in order to advocate stopping immigration? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/11/ron-desantis/debate-fact-check-ron-desantis-misleading-claim-th/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/11/ron-desant... https://www.politifact.com/immigration/ https://www.politifact.com/immigration/
adrian_b 3y ago
In many cases there is evidence that the palaces and cities were not just abandoned, but they were burned. So this makes plausible that the abandoning was not something voluntary.