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Somewhat related: I just read a history of England where it was stated that country parsons had a very, very good living and not much work to do, up until 1850

Somewhat related: I just read a history of England where it was stated that country parsons had a very, very good living and not much work to do, up until 1850 or so, and many of them devoted their energies to all sorts of useful projects. Then the money dried up, as agriculture changed.

blacksqr 3y ago
In fact, many men with literary or scientific aspirations aimed for careers in the clergy for just this reason. It was a lifetime scholarship.
- yareally 3y ago
  Also music. Antonio Vivaldi was a priest, but had a special dispensation that excused him from most of the required duties. Gave him a lot of time to compose music.
  - graemep 3y ago
    Very different as Vivaldi was an Italian (and presumably a Catholic priest) and he would have needed the special dispensation form his duties. What was specific to the Anglican church in England at the time was that because of the control of the church by the state and the aristocracy it was possible for people with the right connections to be just handed the job with little requirement to do it. IIRC they could even pay curate to do the actual work.
    - blacksqr 3y ago
      Thank you, my comment was intended to apply specifically to the Church of England. Any community that wanted a church was required to set aside farmland whose produce would be used to fund it, and the people had to donate their labor to work the land. So the English church had a rather unique arrangement where each parish had a source of funds independent of central government or church bureaucracy. That was the attraction of the job for intellectuals. As long as you kept your head down and didn't screw up big time, you were left alone.
lifeisstillgood 3y ago
Bill Bryson’s a short history of the world is very good on this. Yes Parsons had a class-based sinecure and several of them made huge contributions to science and society. But the vast majority did or achieved nothing and were a drain on resources. The first wave of globalisation- caused largely by the US ice trade - where taking ice from lakes meant refrigerated train carriages and ice warehouses in Chicago and new York, and refrigerated ships crossing the Atlantic. Suddenly small farms in England, France and Vermont were competing with Iowa corn fields. There was a 1870s collapse in food prices and the subsequent collapse in social structures - we simply could not afford to keep indolent parsons, and now their “parsonages” are prized second homes
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  > Parsons had a class-based sinecure and several of them made huge contributions to science and society. But the vast majority did or achieved nothing and were a drain on resources a drain on whose resources?
  - seanhunter 3y ago
    The people who would have been paying a tithe[1] to their local church presumably. In the UK there was this thing where the second son of some rich family would typically go into the church (because the first son was going to inherit and there were only so many occupations that were respectable for a rich person to do - any kind of actual work not really being among them). [1] Percentage of earnings, canonically a tenth, but not sure whether/how much that was always the case.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      Yes, I know what a tithe is. Look, they had a social organization. Somehow or other, they managed to be the most powerful nation on Earth. It seems sort of idle to nitpick on it.
      - lifeisstillgood 3y ago

blacksqr 3y ago

In fact, many men with literary or scientific aspirations aimed for careers in the clergy for just this reason. It was a lifetime scholarship.

yareally 3y ago
Also music. Antonio Vivaldi was a priest, but had a special dispensation that excused him from most of the required duties. Gave him a lot of time to compose music.
- graemep 3y ago
  Very different as Vivaldi was an Italian (and presumably a Catholic priest) and he would have needed the special dispensation form his duties. What was specific to the Anglican church in England at the time was that because of the control of the church by the state and the aristocracy it was possible for people with the right connections to be just handed the job with little requirement to do it. IIRC they could even pay curate to do the actual work.
  - blacksqr 3y ago
    Thank you, my comment was intended to apply specifically to the Church of England. Any community that wanted a church was required to set aside farmland whose produce would be used to fund it, and the people had to donate their labor to work the land. So the English church had a rather unique arrangement where each parish had a source of funds independent of central government or church bureaucracy. That was the attraction of the job for intellectuals. As long as you kept your head down and didn't screw up big time, you were left alone.

lifeisstillgood 3y ago

Bill Bryson’s a short history of the world is very good on this. Yes Parsons had a class-based sinecure and several of them made huge contributions to science and society. But the vast majority did or achieved nothing and were a drain on resources. The first wave of globalisation- caused largely by the US ice trade - where taking ice from lakes meant refrigerated train carriages and ice warehouses in Chicago and new York, and refrigerated ships crossing the Atlantic. Suddenly small farms in England, France and Vermont were competing with Iowa corn fields. There was a 1870s collapse in food prices and the subsequent collapse in social structures - we simply could not afford to keep indolent parsons, and now their “parsonages” are prized second homes

AlbertCory 3y ago
> Parsons had a class-based sinecure and several of them made huge contributions to science and society. But the vast majority did or achieved nothing and were a drain on resources a drain on whose resources?
- seanhunter 3y ago
  The people who would have been paying a tithe[1] to their local church presumably. In the UK there was this thing where the second son of some rich family would typically go into the church (because the first son was going to inherit and there were only so many occupations that were respectable for a rich person to do - any kind of actual work not really being among them). [1] Percentage of earnings, canonically a tenth, but not sure whether/how much that was always the case.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Yes, I know what a tithe is. Look, they had a social organization. Somehow or other, they managed to be the most powerful nation on Earth. It seems sort of idle to nitpick on it.
    - lifeisstillgood 3y ago