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> A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice

> A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. I do not at all believe this is unique to the Tik-Tok generation. > As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. Do you have any evidence beyond anecdata for this assertion? My understanding is the "great resignation" was people upping their salary requirements, basically the willingness to break your body and soul for pennies is significantly lessened. In other words, minimum wage labor became more scarce and/or just more expensive. Are you willing to work for half of your current pay? If you were, would you work less hard? For the knowledge that we do have, per the person being fired, they were a diligent worker. Seemingly to have done pretty well after a short ramp-up period even. This is why the firing is an even bigger kick in the nuts, she worked hard, was praised for that hard work by her manager, and then HR comes in and says she was not doing well at all. I would turn this around a bit, perhaps the older generation feels entitled that they can treat people like this.

Spivak 3y ago
> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treating you in kind. I understand that HN is full of people who either don't grok cultural norms or who balk at them saying "well if they don't want to serve you half an hour before close they should close a half hour early then." I'm not gonna tell you can't live your life that way but you can't be surprised when you eventually find yourself disrespecting someone by ignoring those norms and people getting angry at you for it.
- paul7986 3y ago
  Read my comment below I went to this sub shop many times ..where they know me as a customer and when I walked in I asked explicitly if they could still make me a sub. Just noting my experiences this never happened before Covid..u work the shift you are scheduled and serve food til then. Now if the owner of the business is isn't paying them beyond their shift yet their employees are getting blamed that's not right.
- try_the_bass 3y ago
  The counterpoint to this is: if the restaurant wants to stop serving food at 4:45 so the staff can leave at 5, they should close at 4:45 instead of 5. "Closing time" is external-facing, and customers shouldn't be expected to know that it actually means "4:45 so the staff can go home at 5". It's not a cultural thing, it's about clearly setting expectations. If you publicly state that closing time is 5, and you're not okay with someone coming in to order at 4:45, that's on you, not them. Trying to justify "you can't order a half hour before closing" as a "cultural norm" is just making excuses for poor communication, imo. Besides, isn't expecting everyone to understand your specific cultural norms fairly... Exclusionary?
  - paul7986 3y ago
    Well per their comment there is now such a cultural norm and it's ok to cuss out with your body language and attitude to treat customers as such. That worker does it to others per Facebook comments about that jersey mikes. 7 months later she is still there so just maybe this is the new norm ..not one that makes sense but Covid changed the game some to a lot.
    - Spivak 3y ago
      No, the cultural norm is that it's respectful to the workers to not go to a sit down restaurant less than an hour before it closes or a fast casual place less than a half hour before it closes. That time is for the people currently eating in the restaurant to finish up while the staff clean the kitchen but before they're asked to leave. So someone who comes in during that time and insists on ordering food means they have to clean then kitchen again and stay even longer after close. So while it's praiseworthy to keep your composure when you're not being shown respect I won't fault them for begrudgingly doing what they ask and conveying that.
      - paul7986 3y ago
        They were asked and could've said as I knew them for two years as a customer to say I cleaned things up ..could come tomorrow. As well my other example ..,Wendy's 30 minutes before closing saying do u really went to order we are closing soon. What time is the right time to go in and get a sub or a burger when their hours clearly say 10 to 10?
paul7986 3y ago
My own personal experiences and I anonymously created a post on Facebook discussing two anonymous local fast food & casual chains on a local FB group noting my experiences. The majority said I was in the wrong and the majority were 44 years and below (so not just the TikTok generation ..gen z). Older then that it skewed something like if are scheduled your shift to serve food you do so until closing time. There could be factors in play like the employees are not paid beyond their shift hours and they are taking the blame for crappy franchise owners. Also to me it makes sense that this change has occurred and or I and others are experiencing the same thing. If there's a worker shortage band it's hard to retain workers the rule change as an owner so you can keep your business going especially where there's huge demand (jersey mikes for example)for what your selling.

Spivak 3y ago

> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treating you in kind. I understand that HN is full of people who either don't grok cultural norms or who balk at them saying "well if they don't want to serve you half an hour before close they should close a half hour early then." I'm not gonna tell you can't live your life that way but you can't be surprised when you eventually find yourself disrespecting someone by ignoring those norms and people getting angry at you for it.

paul7986 3y ago
Read my comment below I went to this sub shop many times ..where they know me as a customer and when I walked in I asked explicitly if they could still make me a sub. Just noting my experiences this never happened before Covid..u work the shift you are scheduled and serve food til then. Now if the owner of the business is isn't paying them beyond their shift yet their employees are getting blamed that's not right.
try_the_bass 3y ago
The counterpoint to this is: if the restaurant wants to stop serving food at 4:45 so the staff can leave at 5, they should close at 4:45 instead of 5. "Closing time" is external-facing, and customers shouldn't be expected to know that it actually means "4:45 so the staff can go home at 5". It's not a cultural thing, it's about clearly setting expectations. If you publicly state that closing time is 5, and you're not okay with someone coming in to order at 4:45, that's on you, not them. Trying to justify "you can't order a half hour before closing" as a "cultural norm" is just making excuses for poor communication, imo. Besides, isn't expecting everyone to understand your specific cultural norms fairly... Exclusionary?
- paul7986 3y ago
  Well per their comment there is now such a cultural norm and it's ok to cuss out with your body language and attitude to treat customers as such. That worker does it to others per Facebook comments about that jersey mikes. 7 months later she is still there so just maybe this is the new norm ..not one that makes sense but Covid changed the game some to a lot.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    No, the cultural norm is that it's respectful to the workers to not go to a sit down restaurant less than an hour before it closes or a fast casual place less than a half hour before it closes. That time is for the people currently eating in the restaurant to finish up while the staff clean the kitchen but before they're asked to leave. So someone who comes in during that time and insists on ordering food means they have to clean then kitchen again and stay even longer after close. So while it's praiseworthy to keep your composure when you're not being shown respect I won't fault them for begrudgingly doing what they ask and conveying that.
    - paul7986 3y ago
      They were asked and could've said as I knew them for two years as a customer to say I cleaned things up ..could come tomorrow. As well my other example ..,Wendy's 30 minutes before closing saying do u really went to order we are closing soon. What time is the right time to go in and get a sub or a burger when their hours clearly say 10 to 10?

paul7986 3y ago

My own personal experiences and I anonymously created a post on Facebook discussing two anonymous local fast food & casual chains on a local FB group noting my experiences. The majority said I was in the wrong and the majority were 44 years and below (so not just the TikTok generation ..gen z). Older then that it skewed something like if are scheduled your shift to serve food you do so until closing time. There could be factors in play like the employees are not paid beyond their shift hours and they are taking the blame for crappy franchise owners. Also to me it makes sense that this change has occurred and or I and others are experiencing the same thing. If there's a worker shortage band it's hard to retain workers the rule change as an owner so you can keep your business going especially where there's huge demand (jersey mikes for example)for what your selling.