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The military is not a business. It doesn’t have a revenue model that tries to maintain solvency.

by crystaln 3y ago

grecy 3y ago
Given large companies get bailouts whenever they need them, I would argue the same is true of many companies in the US.
- abduhl 3y ago
  Name the last large company to receive a bailout. This question is important to see where you draw the line on something being a “bailout.”
  - grecy 3y ago
    https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list 991 times for a total of $635B
    - abduhl 3y ago
      This list includes companies that received <$10,000 (and which was paid back entirely, for example the one below). It sounds like any amount of money from the government is a bailout by your metric. Or perhaps your definition is more narrow since the list only includes financial institutions and automakers, so maybe it's only banks or automakers that receive money from the government? To be less charitable, I'm pretty sure you're just reciting some stupid Twitter/Reddit talking point that you agree with and that you have no principled stance on this beyond "Arghhhhh I hate big corps! The system sucks! Corporations privatize profits and socialize losses!" https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/entities/927-east-end-baptist-tabernacle-federal-credit-union https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/entities/927-east-en...
      - grecy 3y ago
        It's interesting how quick you are to jump into an ad hominem attack, rather than discuss the topic at hand. Please don't do that. It makes your argument look very weak, and it's not polite. We're here to have a discussion, not attack people.
        abduhl 3y ago
        First, don't tell others how to post. You're not the arbiter of discussions. Posts like yours are themselves ad hominem attacks and attempts to deflect from engaging substantively in the discussion by appealing to some moral high ground that you think you occupy. You are not your karma score. Second, you can't even articulate what my argument is (how do I know that you can't even articulate what my argument is? because I haven't made one, all I've done is ask for more information about yours), so how can you call it weak? Third, you still haven't answered my original question: what is the last company to receive a bailout under your definition? More broadly, you haven't articulated what a bailout even is. It's telling that you haven't: you're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in making a political statement.
        grecy 3y ago
        Here's a full timeline of all bailouts listed by propublica: https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/timeline https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/timeline which clearly shows this is the last company to receive a bailout (Harbor Bankshares Corporation) https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/events/list/2022/8 https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/events/list/2022/8 A bailout is defined as " We're tracking where taxpayer money has gone in the ongoing bailout of the financial system. Our database accounts for both the broader $700 billion bill and the separate bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For each entity, we provide a “Net Outstanding” amount, which shows how deep taxpayers are in the hole after accounting for any revenue the government has received (usually through interest or dividends). Companies that failed to repay the government and resulted in a loss are shaded red. You can see a list of those investments here. All other investments either returned a profit to the government or might still be repaid. Recipients of aid through TARP’s housing programs (such as mortgage servicers and state housing orgs) received subsidies that were never intended to be repaid, so we don’t mark those as losses.. " So the lines marked in RED are where money was given to a private company and never repaid. That is an outstanding "loss" on a bailout.

The military is not a business. It doesn’t have a revenue model that tries to maintain solvency.

grecy 3y ago

Given large companies get bailouts whenever they need them, I would argue the same is true of many companies in the US.

abduhl 3y ago
Name the last large company to receive a bailout. This question is important to see where you draw the line on something being a “bailout.”
- grecy 3y ago
  https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list 991 times for a total of $635B
  - abduhl 3y ago
    This list includes companies that received <$10,000 (and which was paid back entirely, for example the one below). It sounds like any amount of money from the government is a bailout by your metric. Or perhaps your definition is more narrow since the list only includes financial institutions and automakers, so maybe it's only banks or automakers that receive money from the government? To be less charitable, I'm pretty sure you're just reciting some stupid Twitter/Reddit talking point that you agree with and that you have no principled stance on this beyond "Arghhhhh I hate big corps! The system sucks! Corporations privatize profits and socialize losses!" https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/entities/927-east-end-baptist-tabernacle-federal-credit-union https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/entities/927-east-en...
    - grecy 3y ago
      It's interesting how quick you are to jump into an ad hominem attack, rather than discuss the topic at hand. Please don't do that. It makes your argument look very weak, and it's not polite. We're here to have a discussion, not attack people.
      - abduhl 3y ago
        First, don't tell others how to post. You're not the arbiter of discussions. Posts like yours are themselves ad hominem attacks and attempts to deflect from engaging substantively in the discussion by appealing to some moral high ground that you think you occupy. You are not your karma score. Second, you can't even articulate what my argument is (how do I know that you can't even articulate what my argument is? because I haven't made one, all I've done is ask for more information about yours), so how can you call it weak? Third, you still haven't answered my original question: what is the last company to receive a bailout under your definition? More broadly, you haven't articulated what a bailout even is. It's telling that you haven't: you're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in making a political statement.
        grecy 3y ago
        Here's a full timeline of all bailouts listed by propublica: https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/timeline https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/timeline which clearly shows this is the last company to receive a bailout (Harbor Bankshares Corporation) https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/events/list/2022/8 https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/events/list/2022/8 A bailout is defined as " We're tracking where taxpayer money has gone in the ongoing bailout of the financial system. Our database accounts for both the broader $700 billion bill and the separate bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For each entity, we provide a “Net Outstanding” amount, which shows how deep taxpayers are in the hole after accounting for any revenue the government has received (usually through interest or dividends). Companies that failed to repay the government and resulted in a loss are shaded red. You can see a list of those investments here. All other investments either returned a profit to the government or might still be repaid. Recipients of aid through TARP’s housing programs (such as mortgage servicers and state housing orgs) received subsidies that were never intended to be repaid, so we don’t mark those as losses.. " So the lines marked in RED are where money was given to a private company and never repaid. That is an outstanding "loss" on a bailout.