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I shuddered when the (Canadian) iPhone app insisted that it was allowed to run as a background process and that precise geolocation was on. GFYS was my second r

by xattt 3y ago

I shuddered when the (Canadian) iPhone app insisted that it was allowed to run as a background process and that precise geolocation was on. GFYS was my second reaction.

crazygringo 3y ago
Precise geolocation is used to pick the nearest McDonald's. You need precise in urban areas where there might be multiple locations only a few blocks away. I don't know why you would have given it always-on (background) location permission. iPhones don't ever grant that by default, you always have to opt in. Nor does the app require it -- when it asks the first time you run the app, just pick "only while using the app". Or turn it off in Location settings if you picked the wrong setting initially.
- gruez 3y ago
  Even if you choose "only while using the app", the app can work around that if it's registered as a navigation app. I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar when using both the uber and mcdonalds app, despite only granting the "only while using the app" permission. Also the mcdonalds app requires precise location access to see any of the offers/promos.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    > I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar Sure, but that's intentional and incredibly obvious in the status bar. It tracks your location between when you place an order and when you're close to the restaurant so that you can confirm for them to start the order. It's not like it keeps tracking you for hours or days afterwards or anything. Same as Uber -- it turns off after your ride is done. The status bar message disappears. Point is, the app doesn't seem designed to harvest location data. If you pick up an order at the restaurant, they know you were there anyways. Your phone isn't telling them something they don't already know.
    - water-your-self 3y ago
      Having location data on can potentially implicate you in a crime.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - fragmede 3y ago
        It can also be used as an alibi, so if you go kill your ex wife, make sure you have location tracking turned on, and give your phone to someone else to be in another place.
        cookie_monsta 3y ago
        Not a lawyer, but my estimate is that this would stand up in approximately zero courts worldwide
        mcculley 3y ago
        It has been presented as evidence (e.g., https://corrcronin.com/2023/05/never-off-the-grid-how-to-find-and-use-electronic-location-data-in-litigation/ https://corrcronin.com/2023/05/never-off-the-grid-how-to-fin...)
        cookie_monsta 3y ago
        All of those examples are of LE claiming that somebody was at a given location, not a defendant using it to prove they were somewhere else. What's the difference? One is somewhat difficult to fake, the other is laughably easy. Not saying it hasn't been attempted somewhere, I'm saying it would be a very weak prosecutor who couldn't cast doubt on it as a piece of "proof"
        sokoloff 3y ago
        The proof obligation is (correctly) vastly higher in one direction than the other in a US criminal trial. A defendant using it to create reasonable doubt is a win for the defense. A prosecutor who is only able to cast doubt on it is not a win for the prosecution.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    When using that workaround the Dynamic Island will show that the app is using navigation. It's a prominent UI indicator impossible to miss. Much more obvious than the small location icon next to the clock. For such apps I prefer to manually terminate them when not using, instead of merely moving them to the background.
- smeej 3y ago
  Can you download the app from their parking lot, on their WiFi, do your thing, and uninstall it? Leaving a food app installed seems unnecessary in the first place.
  - hattmall 3y ago
    Yeah you could do that, but uninstalling and reinstalling every time seems unnecessary imo.
    - xattt 3y ago
      This was my issue. It took too long.
      - smeej 3y ago
        "Too long"? Are we not talking about, like, 60 seconds? Admittedly I don't use these things, but is there some major inconvenience I'm missing?
        xattt 3y ago
        The app is 255 MB. If you’re on a 2 GB plan, that’s an 1/8th if your data for the month just to save a few bucks. This is in addition to when you just want to eat the damn thing once you get it.
        smeej 3y ago
        I didn't realize 2GB plans were still common. I'm paying $15 a month for 5 (U.S., in New England), and figured people who paid real money for their plans had enough that one app wouldn't matter. But then McDonald's also has free WiFi, so does it matter?
- astrange 3y ago
  It's because if you order pickup, they don't actually start making it until you get there.

by xattt 3y ago

I shuddered when the (Canadian) iPhone app insisted that it was allowed to run as a background process and that precise geolocation was on. GFYS was my second reaction.

crazygringo 3y ago

Precise geolocation is used to pick the nearest McDonald's. You need precise in urban areas where there might be multiple locations only a few blocks away. I don't know why you would have given it always-on (background) location permission. iPhones don't ever grant that by default, you always have to opt in. Nor does the app require it -- when it asks the first time you run the app, just pick "only while using the app". Or turn it off in Location settings if you picked the wrong setting initially.

gruez 3y ago
Even if you choose "only while using the app", the app can work around that if it's registered as a navigation app. I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar when using both the uber and mcdonalds app, despite only granting the "only while using the app" permission. Also the mcdonalds app requires precise location access to see any of the offers/promos.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  > I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar Sure, but that's intentional and incredibly obvious in the status bar. It tracks your location between when you place an order and when you're close to the restaurant so that you can confirm for them to start the order. It's not like it keeps tracking you for hours or days afterwards or anything. Same as Uber -- it turns off after your ride is done. The status bar message disappears. Point is, the app doesn't seem designed to harvest location data. If you pick up an order at the restaurant, they know you were there anyways. Your phone isn't telling them something they don't already know.
  - water-your-self 3y ago
    Having location data on can potentially implicate you in a crime.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - fragmede 3y ago
      It can also be used as an alibi, so if you go kill your ex wife, make sure you have location tracking turned on, and give your phone to someone else to be in another place.
      - cookie_monsta 3y ago
        Not a lawyer, but my estimate is that this would stand up in approximately zero courts worldwide
        mcculley 3y ago
        It has been presented as evidence (e.g., https://corrcronin.com/2023/05/never-off-the-grid-how-to-find-and-use-electronic-location-data-in-litigation/ https://corrcronin.com/2023/05/never-off-the-grid-how-to-fin...)
        cookie_monsta 3y ago
        All of those examples are of LE claiming that somebody was at a given location, not a defendant using it to prove they were somewhere else. What's the difference? One is somewhat difficult to fake, the other is laughably easy. Not saying it hasn't been attempted somewhere, I'm saying it would be a very weak prosecutor who couldn't cast doubt on it as a piece of "proof"
        sokoloff 3y ago
        The proof obligation is (correctly) vastly higher in one direction than the other in a US criminal trial. A defendant using it to create reasonable doubt is a win for the defense. A prosecutor who is only able to cast doubt on it is not a win for the prosecution.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  When using that workaround the Dynamic Island will show that the app is using navigation. It's a prominent UI indicator impossible to miss. Much more obvious than the small location icon next to the clock. For such apps I prefer to manually terminate them when not using, instead of merely moving them to the background.
smeej 3y ago
Can you download the app from their parking lot, on their WiFi, do your thing, and uninstall it? Leaving a food app installed seems unnecessary in the first place.
- hattmall 3y ago
  Yeah you could do that, but uninstalling and reinstalling every time seems unnecessary imo.
  - xattt 3y ago
    This was my issue. It took too long.
    - smeej 3y ago
      "Too long"? Are we not talking about, like, 60 seconds? Admittedly I don't use these things, but is there some major inconvenience I'm missing?
      - xattt 3y ago
        The app is 255 MB. If you’re on a 2 GB plan, that’s an 1/8th if your data for the month just to save a few bucks. This is in addition to when you just want to eat the damn thing once you get it.
        smeej 3y ago
        I didn't realize 2GB plans were still common. I'm paying $15 a month for 5 (U.S., in New England), and figured people who paid real money for their plans had enough that one app wouldn't matter. But then McDonald's also has free WiFi, so does it matter?
astrange 3y ago
It's because if you order pickup, they don't actually start making it until you get there.