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I watched the recent movies before reading the book and I disagree. The Shadout Mapes scene had more than enough context clues to understand. Thufir Hawat is ve

I watched the recent movies before reading the book and I disagree. The Shadout Mapes scene had more than enough context clues to understand. Thufir Hawat is very clearly a trusted advisor, and for the purposes of the story that’s really all that matters. The “humans computer” is also there in context clues, but even if you didn’t catch it, it doesn’t detract from the movie at all. This seems like something that if you were actively _looking_ for a deep explanation of mentats, of course you would notice it’s missing… but if you didn’t know mentats were a thing, then the movie’s portrayal of Hawat is great. Paul’s awakening is definitely different in the movie, but I think it’s because in the movie they spread it out (ie there’s a larger emphasis on Paul’s spice trip when saving the crawler). Still, having not read the book at the time I first saw the movie, I didn’t think it was “bland” at all and still made for great storytelling to me. > dream-like mystic feel to it, which is completely absent in the new adaptation Man, I can’t disagree harder with this. One of the best things about the new movie to me is that the entire thing has an aura of intrigue and mysticism that left me just wanting more more more.

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
The problem with mentats is deeper, as they are integral in the traitor subplot, which forms the main intrigue part of the first half of the book and pays off in the second half. In new adaptation Yueh's betrayal came out of the left field without real explanation, wasn't shown how it was motivated, suspicions of everyone vs Jessica and Leto's trust in her are all dropped, and on top of it all Yueh's death was very anticlimactic compared to the old movie. And also, Paul's awakening was my favourite scene in Lynch's Dune, and it was a letdown in Villeneuve's.
- abadpoli 3y ago
  Yueh isn’t a mentat and his betrayal is unrelated to mentats. He’s suk, but even this is not integral in understanding that he was a trusted part of House Atreides and then betrayed them. The rest really isn’t needed to further the plot. Movie adaptations will never be able to be as detailed as books. People that first read a book and then watch the movie will almost always notice there are things that are missing, and if those missing things are something the watcher was really attached to, they will be disappointed. But for people who haven’t read the book, as long as the missing things don’t create large plot holes or confusion, it’s fine. I think Dune does a fantastic job of striking the balance of detail while still telling a cohesive and fascinating story. Stuff like mentats and suk doctors are really fascinating and it’s unfortunate that movies don’t have the time available to expand on them, but the movie is able to stand alone without it.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
    > Yueh isn’t a mentat and his betrayal is unrelated to mentats. Thank you, CO! :-D But I didn't mean that he's mentat, just that Atreides and Harkonnen mentats main activity was related to the traitor plot, which was rather faithfully done in Lynch's version, and was all but omitted in Villeneuve's. The tiny detail that the Baron personally killed Yueh, thus removing the last bit of importance from DeVries before his death, is the final offence to his character.
    - abadpoli 3y ago
      I personally found DeVries character to be completely unforgettable in the book and there was nothing specifically he did that couldn’t have been replaced by something else, so I suppose that’s part of why I don’t think mostly omitting him from the recent movie is that much of a detraction.
      - sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
        I guess you wanted to say forgettable, but just to expand on that: I recently read the book and I couldn’t even remember the character now and had to look up who was meant. Maybe that is more a testament to how bad I am at remembering stuff I read in books than how important the character is but there you go.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        The more Brad Dourif shines then. Not only he carries a vital piece of exposition, he is quite striking in his small role and leaves a lasting impression. Compare this to that poor creature who sadly dies having done absolutely nothing.
echelon 3y ago
I HATE Villeneuve's Dune. Villeneuve leans so heavily into "show, don't tell" that the movie becomes a long trailer. It has lots of visual exposition, but no character experiences an arc or development. So much rich lore is passed by on the wayside, and no work is done to connect the dots between the plot points. Elements as essential as character motivations are nowhere to be found. I understand wanting to keep exposition to a minimal, but there's a way to craft and weave it into the rhythm and pace of a story. The reason Yueh's betrayal doesn't sting is because no effort is put into developing him or his relationships. The fall of House Atreides is rather dull, action fluff. The Spice, the Spacing Guild, the Mentats, and the Bene Gesserit are passed over for more CG and more action scenes. The flash-forward dream sequences of Paul are sloppy and don't do the forthcoming plot ramifications justice. The Harkonnens are turned into cartoons, and their one act of supreme cruelty is handled entirely off-camera. I dearly love the books, but you shouldn't have to read the books to appreciate the film. It should stand on its own legs, and Villeneuve totally misses on that shot. He delivered incoherent action dreck. It's visually appealing, but it's practically a GPU advertisement. I can't entirely hate on Villeneuve, though. Blade Runner 2049 is a masterpiece.
- abadpoli 3y ago
  > I dearly love the books, but you shouldn't have to read the books to appreciate the film. It should stand on its own legs, and Villeneuve totally misses on that shot. This is the part I completely disagree with. I don’t think you need to read the books at all to understand or love Villeneuaves Dune. I hadn’t read the book at the time of seeing it, and I loved it. And then after I read the book I love the movie even more.
  - cycomanic 3y ago
    This is the thing, the people here that complain that you need to have read the book to understand the movie are dune fans. On the other hand there are people like you and my partner who I watched the movie with, who understood and loved the movie without having read the book. I think it's usually much harder to please fans of a book, because they all will find different parts of the book important and something will be omitted, e.g. see the discussions about Tom Bombadil in LOTR.

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago

The problem with mentats is deeper, as they are integral in the traitor subplot, which forms the main intrigue part of the first half of the book and pays off in the second half. In new adaptation Yueh's betrayal came out of the left field without real explanation, wasn't shown how it was motivated, suspicions of everyone vs Jessica and Leto's trust in her are all dropped, and on top of it all Yueh's death was very anticlimactic compared to the old movie. And also, Paul's awakening was my favourite scene in Lynch's Dune, and it was a letdown in Villeneuve's.

abadpoli 3y ago
Yueh isn’t a mentat and his betrayal is unrelated to mentats. He’s suk, but even this is not integral in understanding that he was a trusted part of House Atreides and then betrayed them. The rest really isn’t needed to further the plot. Movie adaptations will never be able to be as detailed as books. People that first read a book and then watch the movie will almost always notice there are things that are missing, and if those missing things are something the watcher was really attached to, they will be disappointed. But for people who haven’t read the book, as long as the missing things don’t create large plot holes or confusion, it’s fine. I think Dune does a fantastic job of striking the balance of detail while still telling a cohesive and fascinating story. Stuff like mentats and suk doctors are really fascinating and it’s unfortunate that movies don’t have the time available to expand on them, but the movie is able to stand alone without it.
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
  > Yueh isn’t a mentat and his betrayal is unrelated to mentats. Thank you, CO! :-D But I didn't mean that he's mentat, just that Atreides and Harkonnen mentats main activity was related to the traitor plot, which was rather faithfully done in Lynch's version, and was all but omitted in Villeneuve's. The tiny detail that the Baron personally killed Yueh, thus removing the last bit of importance from DeVries before his death, is the final offence to his character.
  - abadpoli 3y ago
    I personally found DeVries character to be completely unforgettable in the book and there was nothing specifically he did that couldn’t have been replaced by something else, so I suppose that’s part of why I don’t think mostly omitting him from the recent movie is that much of a detraction.
    - sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
      I guess you wanted to say forgettable, but just to expand on that: I recently read the book and I couldn’t even remember the character now and had to look up who was meant. Maybe that is more a testament to how bad I am at remembering stuff I read in books than how important the character is but there you go.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
      The more Brad Dourif shines then. Not only he carries a vital piece of exposition, he is quite striking in his small role and leaves a lasting impression. Compare this to that poor creature who sadly dies having done absolutely nothing.

echelon 3y ago

I HATE Villeneuve's Dune. Villeneuve leans so heavily into "show, don't tell" that the movie becomes a long trailer. It has lots of visual exposition, but no character experiences an arc or development. So much rich lore is passed by on the wayside, and no work is done to connect the dots between the plot points. Elements as essential as character motivations are nowhere to be found. I understand wanting to keep exposition to a minimal, but there's a way to craft and weave it into the rhythm and pace of a story. The reason Yueh's betrayal doesn't sting is because no effort is put into developing him or his relationships. The fall of House Atreides is rather dull, action fluff. The Spice, the Spacing Guild, the Mentats, and the Bene Gesserit are passed over for more CG and more action scenes. The flash-forward dream sequences of Paul are sloppy and don't do the forthcoming plot ramifications justice. The Harkonnens are turned into cartoons, and their one act of supreme cruelty is handled entirely off-camera. I dearly love the books, but you shouldn't have to read the books to appreciate the film. It should stand on its own legs, and Villeneuve totally misses on that shot. He delivered incoherent action dreck. It's visually appealing, but it's practically a GPU advertisement. I can't entirely hate on Villeneuve, though. Blade Runner 2049 is a masterpiece.

abadpoli 3y ago
> I dearly love the books, but you shouldn't have to read the books to appreciate the film. It should stand on its own legs, and Villeneuve totally misses on that shot. This is the part I completely disagree with. I don’t think you need to read the books at all to understand or love Villeneuaves Dune. I hadn’t read the book at the time of seeing it, and I loved it. And then after I read the book I love the movie even more.
- cycomanic 3y ago
  This is the thing, the people here that complain that you need to have read the book to understand the movie are dune fans. On the other hand there are people like you and my partner who I watched the movie with, who understood and loved the movie without having read the book. I think it's usually much harder to please fans of a book, because they all will find different parts of the book important and something will be omitted, e.g. see the discussions about Tom Bombadil in LOTR.