5 ms·

> as that can tank a person's entire career trajectory Plus the act of career suicide by publishing company meeting recordings on social media.

paul7986 3y ago
That depends I think on the demographic hiring her as the TikTok generation as you can see are all on her side (older generation might view her as young/inexperienced/whiny to entitled brat). It might be a good PR stunt to hire her and thus look good in the eyes of possibly the millions who commented in her favor. As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. We value our own time more then our employers time. A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours.
- spacemadness 3y ago
  Or looked at another way, employers value workers time even less and people notice.
- theodric 3y ago
  > Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. Try asking a Swiss man in his late 50s/early 60s at a Swiss bank to do a medium-sized but achievable task at 15:00 on a Friday and see what kind of response you get. I had several under me, so I know firsthand that you'll likely get grumbling and pushback. You'll probably get the work product, but it will come with critical commentary.
  - paul7986 3y ago
    Sure and my experiences were at a McDonald's like fast food place we have in the US called Wendys and at a sub shop like Subway called Jersey Mikes. I can semi understand 15 minutes at the sub shop and even asked the worker is it too late to make me a sub? She said no then proceeded to slam the meat, bread, etc on the counter, huff/puff and roll her eyes at me while her co-worker says we are closing soon. This same worker does this to many in the town as a handful of others complained about her in a FB group thread. She is still working there giving the same attitude. They are paid $20 an hour plus tips. After Coivd the employee is always right cause i guess they are hard to find now and retain.
- seadan83 3y ago
  > A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. I do not at all believe this is unique to the Tik-Tok generation. > As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. Do you have any evidence beyond anecdata for this assertion? My understanding is the "great resignation" was people upping their salary requirements, basically the willingness to break your body and soul for pennies is significantly lessened. In other words, minimum wage labor became more scarce and/or just more expensive. Are you willing to work for half of your current pay? If you were, would you work less hard? For the knowledge that we do have, per the person being fired, they were a diligent worker. Seemingly to have done pretty well after a short ramp-up period even. This is why the firing is an even bigger kick in the nuts, she worked hard, was praised for that hard work by her manager, and then HR comes in and says she was not doing well at all. I would turn this around a bit, perhaps the older generation feels entitled that they can treat people like this.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    > Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treating you in kind. I understand that HN is full of people who either don't grok cultural norms or who balk at them saying "well if they don't want to serve you half an hour before close they should close a half hour early then." I'm not gonna tell you can't live your life that way but you can't be surprised when you eventually find yourself disrespecting someone by ignoring those norms and people getting angry at you for it.
    - paul7986 3y ago
      Read my comment below I went to this sub shop many times ..where they know me as a customer and when I walked in I asked explicitly if they could still make me a sub. Just noting my experiences this never happened before Covid..u work the shift you are scheduled and serve food til then. Now if the owner of the business is isn't paying them beyond their shift yet their employees are getting blamed that's not right.
- paul7986 3y ago
  Most of my opinions are downvoted and disliked ... been on here since 2007. Yet like how i hated and pointed out Cruise was another Uber (they needed to get off the streets cause bro culture was driving it .. fake it before you make it with a startup that's product 1 ton or more robot car that's learning as it goes isn't any place for fake it before you make it) and many other instances my opinions are a lot of times forward thinking. As well when i pitched the idea of sharing battery power between two phones to Intel and Mark Burnett (producer of the Voice, Survivor, etc) on his inventor reality show in 2015 ... in 2019 Samsung added this feature into their phones (Wireless Powershare). As well created an idea in Feb 2013 (long ago lol) that turned multiple phones into one synced speaker via a web app..in March 2013 Samsung announced they were putting this same tech into their phones and in April 2013 Google invited me to discuss putting our tech into the Moto X. My take here per my experiences /intuition is that ppl do not work as hard and care as much in low level to even some high level jobs due to worker shortages and or their companies aren't paying them beyond their shift. I know this will be donwvoted too :)
stateofinquiry 3y ago
I think two things can be true at the same time in this situation: 1) The employee made a poor choice posting meeting recording publicly. 2) The company did an appallingly poor job terminating her. Certainly this video makes me believe that cloudflare is likely a poorly managed company that treats its employees badly. As for Ms. Pietsch, she may be a low performing employee who made a bad choice to post this video.
abadpoli 3y ago
I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video that was posted. The fact that she posted this specific video doesn’t make me assume that she would go and post other videos that do have confidential information, and if a company is embarrassed by their actions in this situation, that says more about the company than it does this employee. I doubt this is career suicide. It might even do the opposite by getting this person’s name and situation out there.
- Loucra 3y ago
  Noup. Only a moron would hire this person. 1) in the video is clear she was not a closer, so bad saleswoman. 2) posting the video with your face and name exposed?!?! Unless all this is fake, she is done.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Initially. But then they respond by saying that they are willing to follow up with her separately with the answers to her questions, but they don't have them there and then. Not having them there and then is a failing on their part, absolutely. But she won't let go. "How was my performance bad?" repeatedly. At some point in the video it goes from someone having a legitimate grievance to someone just trying to make a point and not listening to feedback or responses.
  - bitcharmer 3y ago
    You're very naive if you think there would be a follow up
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
pentagrama 3y ago
There is almost no perception that the company acted professionally. So she came out as a person who can stand up for herself.
theodric 3y ago
If I were still in the business, and someone posted a video of me fucking up this badly as a manager, I'd be embarrassed, but I wouldn't hold it against them; rather, I'd try to fuck up less badly in the future. She seems like a good hire: -smells bullshit -calls it out -articulate throughout -keeps cool, even while being fired, and while clearly (successfully) fighting back her emotions -defends her position, and doesn't back down when weak and unsatisfactory answers are provided I can't comment on the quality of her work, but she seems tenacious and put together. She'd have done very well in the bank I worked at last. I hope she's swamped with offers from better companies.
gumballindie 3y ago
We need to stop blaming victims and instead stand up for them. If the person who published the video suffers in any way shape of form as a result then cloudflare needs to be held accountable. That company is already on my shitlist. Potentially as low as microsoft, or openai. And that’s quite an achievement.
bsder 3y ago
> Plus the act of career suicide by publishing company meeting recordings on social media. I'm very much older than the TikTok generation and I APPLAUD this kind of thing. Companies have been getting away with too much garbage for way too long by hiding it. Forcing every dumbass minion to realize that they may be on blast at any moment means that both the company and individuals have to start thinking about not being complete shits. Either this is a layoff and they're doing something legally shady or this is a stack-ranking termination and we all know how to regard companies doing that. No matter what the reason is: Cloudflare comes out of this looking completely terrible.

paul7986 3y ago

That depends I think on the demographic hiring her as the TikTok generation as you can see are all on her side (older generation might view her as young/inexperienced/whiny to entitled brat). It might be a good PR stunt to hire her and thus look good in the eyes of possibly the millions who commented in her favor. As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. We value our own time more then our employers time. A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours.

spacemadness 3y ago
Or looked at another way, employers value workers time even less and people notice.
theodric 3y ago
> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. Try asking a Swiss man in his late 50s/early 60s at a Swiss bank to do a medium-sized but achievable task at 15:00 on a Friday and see what kind of response you get. I had several under me, so I know firsthand that you'll likely get grumbling and pushback. You'll probably get the work product, but it will come with critical commentary.
- paul7986 3y ago
  Sure and my experiences were at a McDonald's like fast food place we have in the US called Wendys and at a sub shop like Subway called Jersey Mikes. I can semi understand 15 minutes at the sub shop and even asked the worker is it too late to make me a sub? She said no then proceeded to slam the meat, bread, etc on the counter, huff/puff and roll her eyes at me while her co-worker says we are closing soon. This same worker does this to many in the town as a handful of others complained about her in a FB group thread. She is still working there giving the same attitude. They are paid $20 an hour plus tips. After Coivd the employee is always right cause i guess they are hard to find now and retain.
seadan83 3y ago
> A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. I do not at all believe this is unique to the Tik-Tok generation. > As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. Do you have any evidence beyond anecdata for this assertion? My understanding is the "great resignation" was people upping their salary requirements, basically the willingness to break your body and soul for pennies is significantly lessened. In other words, minimum wage labor became more scarce and/or just more expensive. Are you willing to work for half of your current pay? If you were, would you work less hard? For the knowledge that we do have, per the person being fired, they were a diligent worker. Seemingly to have done pretty well after a short ramp-up period even. This is why the firing is an even bigger kick in the nuts, she worked hard, was praised for that hard work by her manager, and then HR comes in and says she was not doing well at all. I would turn this around a bit, perhaps the older generation feels entitled that they can treat people like this.
- Spivak 3y ago
  > Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treating you in kind. I understand that HN is full of people who either don't grok cultural norms or who balk at them saying "well if they don't want to serve you half an hour before close they should close a half hour early then." I'm not gonna tell you can't live your life that way but you can't be surprised when you eventually find yourself disrespecting someone by ignoring those norms and people getting angry at you for it.
  - paul7986 3y ago
    Read my comment below I went to this sub shop many times ..where they know me as a customer and when I walked in I asked explicitly if they could still make me a sub. Just noting my experiences this never happened before Covid..u work the shift you are scheduled and serve food til then. Now if the owner of the business is isn't paying them beyond their shift yet their employees are getting blamed that's not right.
paul7986 3y ago
Most of my opinions are downvoted and disliked ... been on here since 2007. Yet like how i hated and pointed out Cruise was another Uber (they needed to get off the streets cause bro culture was driving it .. fake it before you make it with a startup that's product 1 ton or more robot car that's learning as it goes isn't any place for fake it before you make it) and many other instances my opinions are a lot of times forward thinking. As well when i pitched the idea of sharing battery power between two phones to Intel and Mark Burnett (producer of the Voice, Survivor, etc) on his inventor reality show in 2015 ... in 2019 Samsung added this feature into their phones (Wireless Powershare). As well created an idea in Feb 2013 (long ago lol) that turned multiple phones into one synced speaker via a web app..in March 2013 Samsung announced they were putting this same tech into their phones and in April 2013 Google invited me to discuss putting our tech into the Moto X. My take here per my experiences /intuition is that ppl do not work as hard and care as much in low level to even some high level jobs due to worker shortages and or their companies aren't paying them beyond their shift. I know this will be donwvoted too :)

stateofinquiry 3y ago

I think two things can be true at the same time in this situation: 1) The employee made a poor choice posting meeting recording publicly. 2) The company did an appallingly poor job terminating her. Certainly this video makes me believe that cloudflare is likely a poorly managed company that treats its employees badly. As for Ms. Pietsch, she may be a low performing employee who made a bad choice to post this video.

abadpoli 3y ago

I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video that was posted. The fact that she posted this specific video doesn’t make me assume that she would go and post other videos that do have confidential information, and if a company is embarrassed by their actions in this situation, that says more about the company than it does this employee. I doubt this is career suicide. It might even do the opposite by getting this person’s name and situation out there.

Loucra 3y ago
Noup. Only a moron would hire this person. 1) in the video is clear she was not a closer, so bad saleswoman. 2) posting the video with your face and name exposed?!?! Unless all this is fake, she is done.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Initially. But then they respond by saying that they are willing to follow up with her separately with the answers to her questions, but they don't have them there and then. Not having them there and then is a failing on their part, absolutely. But she won't let go. "How was my performance bad?" repeatedly. At some point in the video it goes from someone having a legitimate grievance to someone just trying to make a point and not listening to feedback or responses.
- bitcharmer 3y ago
  You're very naive if you think there would be a follow up
  - FireBeyond 3y ago

pentagrama 3y ago

There is almost no perception that the company acted professionally. So she came out as a person who can stand up for herself.

theodric 3y ago

If I were still in the business, and someone posted a video of me fucking up this badly as a manager, I'd be embarrassed, but I wouldn't hold it against them; rather, I'd try to fuck up less badly in the future. She seems like a good hire: -smells bullshit -calls it out -articulate throughout -keeps cool, even while being fired, and while clearly (successfully) fighting back her emotions -defends her position, and doesn't back down when weak and unsatisfactory answers are provided I can't comment on the quality of her work, but she seems tenacious and put together. She'd have done very well in the bank I worked at last. I hope she's swamped with offers from better companies.

gumballindie 3y ago

We need to stop blaming victims and instead stand up for them. If the person who published the video suffers in any way shape of form as a result then cloudflare needs to be held accountable. That company is already on my shitlist. Potentially as low as microsoft, or openai. And that’s quite an achievement.

bsder 3y ago

> Plus the act of career suicide by publishing company meeting recordings on social media. I'm very much older than the TikTok generation and I APPLAUD this kind of thing. Companies have been getting away with too much garbage for way too long by hiding it. Forcing every dumbass minion to realize that they may be on blast at any moment means that both the company and individuals have to start thinking about not being complete shits. Either this is a layoff and they're doing something legally shady or this is a stack-ranking termination and we all know how to regard companies doing that. No matter what the reason is: Cloudflare comes out of this looking completely terrible.