4 ms·

Both Russia and Israel are widely agreed to be on the wrong side of international law - Israel is of course continuing its illegal occupation, illegal settlemen

Both Russia and Israel are widely agreed to be on the wrong side of international law - Israel is of course continuing its illegal occupation, illegal settlements, illegal blockade, etc. Why are the circumstances so different?

josephg 3y ago
Hamas is also on the wrong side of international law. Bombing, kidnapping, raping and murdering civilians is not ok no matter how angry you are. And they aren’t just a rogue terrorist cell. They’re the elected government of Palestine. Russia can just pull out of Ukraine and everyone will chill out. But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October. And if they pull out of their illegal settlements in response to a terrorist act, it will embolden the next strike against their civilians. As far as I can tell, it’s an impossible situation for everyone. If you truly think there are simple answers in Gaza, how would you de-escalate the conflict at this point?
- cool_dude85 3y ago
  >Hamas is also on the wrong side of international law. Bombing, kidnapping, raping and murdering civilians is not ok no matter how angry you are. And they aren’t just a rogue terrorist cell. They’re the elected government of Palestine. Much to my point about the Israel and Russia attacks being very comparable, Russia can of course point to such terrorist groups in Ukraine, even ones like Azov being given official status in the armed forces. >But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October. Speculation on both our parts, but I think a real Palestinian state in the pre-67 borders and right of return for refugees would effectively end large-scale terrorist attacks, much the same as Russia would be safe if they withdrew from Ukraine.
  - josephg 3y ago
    > I think a real Palestinian state in the pre-67 borders and right of return for refugees would effectively end large-scale terrorist attacks Unfortunately it would also tell Palestine that terrorism works. And next time they want Israel to take their needs seriously, murdering, kidnapping and raping some Israeli civilians is the right way to go about it. From a long term strategic point of view, Israel can’t give ground as a result of the terrorist attacks or they encourage more such attacks to happen in the future.
    - cool_dude85 3y ago
      So an end to the illegal occupation, settlement, blockade would be a lesson to Palestinians that terrorism works? Is the end of terrorist attacks against Israel a lesson that blockades, settlements, and occupations work?

josephg 3y ago

Hamas is also on the wrong side of international law. Bombing, kidnapping, raping and murdering civilians is not ok no matter how angry you are. And they aren’t just a rogue terrorist cell. They’re the elected government of Palestine. Russia can just pull out of Ukraine and everyone will chill out. But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October. And if they pull out of their illegal settlements in response to a terrorist act, it will embolden the next strike against their civilians. As far as I can tell, it’s an impossible situation for everyone. If you truly think there are simple answers in Gaza, how would you de-escalate the conflict at this point?

cool_dude85 3y ago
>Hamas is also on the wrong side of international law. Bombing, kidnapping, raping and murdering civilians is not ok no matter how angry you are. And they aren’t just a rogue terrorist cell. They’re the elected government of Palestine. Much to my point about the Israel and Russia attacks being very comparable, Russia can of course point to such terrorist groups in Ukraine, even ones like Azov being given official status in the armed forces. >But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October. Speculation on both our parts, but I think a real Palestinian state in the pre-67 borders and right of return for refugees would effectively end large-scale terrorist attacks, much the same as Russia would be safe if they withdrew from Ukraine.
- josephg 3y ago
  > I think a real Palestinian state in the pre-67 borders and right of return for refugees would effectively end large-scale terrorist attacks Unfortunately it would also tell Palestine that terrorism works. And next time they want Israel to take their needs seriously, murdering, kidnapping and raping some Israeli civilians is the right way to go about it. From a long term strategic point of view, Israel can’t give ground as a result of the terrorist attacks or they encourage more such attacks to happen in the future.
  - cool_dude85 3y ago
    So an end to the illegal occupation, settlement, blockade would be a lesson to Palestinians that terrorism works? Is the end of terrorist attacks against Israel a lesson that blockades, settlements, and occupations work?