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While I agree in principle, the fact remains that certain things you publicly do in your free time will change the way people view you and their respect for you

While I agree in principle, the fact remains that certain things you publicly do in your free time will change the way people view you and their respect for you as a professional. In the end, it affects your ability to do your job when you lose respect of your colleagues and clients. In a perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem, but we’re far from that.

lgkk 3y ago
In a perfect world I think that people wouldn’t be resorting to OF or porn. Imo people today do that to make fast money and well… I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making. I don’t respect drug dealers, corrupt businessmen, nor YouTube scammers. I also don’t respect people who perpetuate mental harms by producing porn and contributing to these issues. I do respect startup founders that solve actual problems, teachers who help improve failing schools, or scientists who don’t accept corporate funding to paint an inaccurate picture. I value persistence, virtue, and meritocracy and no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors. Just being honest with my opinion. And people are free to disagree with my pov as well, and do whatever they want.
- maxbond 3y ago
  If I told you that I had moral views about the legal and consensual stuff you get up to in your private life (whatever that may be), and I told you I thought it was reprehensible and that you should lose your job over it, would you perhaps think I was being overbearing and that I should mind my own business? Eg, if you were a person of faith (I have no idea if you are), and I was a militant atheist (to be clear I'm agnostic), and I told you that I thought all religion was harmful and said something disrespectful like, if you believe in an imaginary friend who grants wishes you aren't qualified to be a doctor/engineer/etc (this is not a position I actually endorse or an appropriate way to talk about religion) - can you see how you might tell me to get lost?
  - lgkk 3y ago
    Are you causing harm through your actions? That’s really the only metric I use, and it’s pretty simple. If my actions were increasing mental issues, leading to people getting sick via inaccuracies, or causing pension funds to be misallocated then sure. You should call me out on it. Money isn’t the end all be all. Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy.
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      You said: > I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making. but if there's no harm, and porn is consensual, all is good - right? > Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy. why should they if it, by your metric, is doing no harm?
    - maxbond 3y ago
      > You should call me out on it. Well, I was using thought experiments to avoid calling you out, but if you want me to be forthright, I can do that. I don't want to get into an argument though, honestly I don't even want to get into a debate, so I'm gunnuh say my piece and you can take it or leave it. I just don't have the energy to get into a debate. (Not to say you aren't free to respond however you see fit, I just probably won't respond if you defend your position.) I do think you are taking a position which is harmful. For more reasons than I can get into in an HN comment, but the highlights are, you're exaggerating the potential for harm; you're projecting flat narratives in your head onto real people and using that to justify removing their bodily autonomy (eg, not everyone makes porn because they're desperate - some people are exhibitionists [no, I don't understand why either], some people enjoy that kind of work, some people do it for reasons neither of us have imagined); generally you're trying to impose your moral standards on to others.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - spigottoday 3y ago
- hfhdjdks 3y ago
  Let's say you collect stamps. I think it's a stupid and morally irresponsible way of using your free time (you should be socializing or doing sports or learning something new). Just being honest with my opinion. This is all ok. The problem is when we start firing people or shunning them for stuff we don't like.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    Let's take an example that's not a softball. What if your daughter's male elementary school teacher had a porn site and everyone in the class knew about it? How about your son's female middle school teacher? Apply to your therapist, or masseuse or whatever. Do you not see a conflict of interest? How much of a distraction would that be? That's not so black and white to me.
    - RHSeeger 3y ago
      This falls into the category of "effects their ability to perform their work" and (to some extent) "more harm than good" (because it impacts their ability to to do their work. And, in that case, it may be reasonable to no longer employ them for that role. I expect it's similar to sportsball players that have ethical clauses in their contracts; the point of their job is to bring in money for the team and, if people despise them for their actions, they may not be able to do that.
  - bediger4000 3y ago
    If I chose not to hang around someone who continually brings their politics or their religion into whatever is going on, am I shunning them? Let's say I read paleontology for fun. Can I avoid Young Earth Creationists socially, or am I shunning them?
    - whstl 3y ago
      That's a very strange question. Not hanging out with someone is obviously fine, and it's your choice. Firing or publicly shunning someone is a totally different matter.
- nullstyle 3y ago
  I'm curious: "no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors." Why is "accept" the verb used in this statement? Why not "tolerate" or "allow" or "grudgingly ignore"? To state my perspective by way of personal anecdote: I find it shitty that I have neighbors who like to run their errands with pistols strapped to their waists like they want to be Wyatt Earp when they grow up, but my acceptance or non-acceptance of the situation is irrelevant. I don't feel like I'm forced to accept the situation just because I have no right or power to change it by myself. As an aside: I bet if I tried to go get those neighbors of mine fired for their open-carry, I would end up shot.
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  I don't approve of many things that other people do, but I do accept the vast majority. I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by porn just as I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by religion. In the end, however, I find it easier to instead live and let live. I would hope you choose to the do the same instead of bothering others about their private lives.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  I don't share your opinion. But besides that, if you think about it. Firing people for doing porn as a side job is effectively forcing people into doing porn as a full time job. OnlyFans doesn't fire people for having a regular day job, so guess what remains as a revenue source.
Spooky23 3y ago
The problem is that the line is very arbitrary and capricious. I work for a government entity, and am subject to a variety of ethics laws that dictate certain aspects of my behavior outside of work. It’s onerous and heavy handed, but at least there are rules and case law to provide some level of due process and fairness. It still sucks - I actually have a social life, and I have to be very careful about who I’m around and that there is no problematic perceptions. With private sector employers, especially entities that aren’t publicly traded, you don’t always know where you stand and the rules are subject to the whims of people whom you may not even know. If you aren’t in a public facing role authoritatively representing the company or using the company to promote your outside activity, it should be a non issue. How many gays were drummed out and persecuted before the law protected them?
- rayiner 3y ago
  > I have to be very careful about who I’m around and that there is no problematic perceptions That seems like society working as intended!
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    It is - but the key thing is there are rules and due process. When your boss decides your swimsuit pictures are too titillating for you to be an accountant for a car dealership, different story.
flandish 3y ago
Well, in some nation states one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A properly managed corporation would instill that mindset, stop things from being hostile, remind others of that “right” and then go from there. The problem is that all corporations ignore this right and hedge proposed changes in profit at the expense of the working class employee’s means to life or insurance or both.

lgkk 3y ago

In a perfect world I think that people wouldn’t be resorting to OF or porn. Imo people today do that to make fast money and well… I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making. I don’t respect drug dealers, corrupt businessmen, nor YouTube scammers. I also don’t respect people who perpetuate mental harms by producing porn and contributing to these issues. I do respect startup founders that solve actual problems, teachers who help improve failing schools, or scientists who don’t accept corporate funding to paint an inaccurate picture. I value persistence, virtue, and meritocracy and no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors. Just being honest with my opinion. And people are free to disagree with my pov as well, and do whatever they want.

maxbond 3y ago
If I told you that I had moral views about the legal and consensual stuff you get up to in your private life (whatever that may be), and I told you I thought it was reprehensible and that you should lose your job over it, would you perhaps think I was being overbearing and that I should mind my own business? Eg, if you were a person of faith (I have no idea if you are), and I was a militant atheist (to be clear I'm agnostic), and I told you that I thought all religion was harmful and said something disrespectful like, if you believe in an imaginary friend who grants wishes you aren't qualified to be a doctor/engineer/etc (this is not a position I actually endorse or an appropriate way to talk about religion) - can you see how you might tell me to get lost?
- lgkk 3y ago
  Are you causing harm through your actions? That’s really the only metric I use, and it’s pretty simple. If my actions were increasing mental issues, leading to people getting sick via inaccuracies, or causing pension funds to be misallocated then sure. You should call me out on it. Money isn’t the end all be all. Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    You said: > I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making. but if there's no harm, and porn is consensual, all is good - right? > Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy. why should they if it, by your metric, is doing no harm?
  - maxbond 3y ago
    > You should call me out on it. Well, I was using thought experiments to avoid calling you out, but if you want me to be forthright, I can do that. I don't want to get into an argument though, honestly I don't even want to get into a debate, so I'm gunnuh say my piece and you can take it or leave it. I just don't have the energy to get into a debate. (Not to say you aren't free to respond however you see fit, I just probably won't respond if you defend your position.) I do think you are taking a position which is harmful. For more reasons than I can get into in an HN comment, but the highlights are, you're exaggerating the potential for harm; you're projecting flat narratives in your head onto real people and using that to justify removing their bodily autonomy (eg, not everyone makes porn because they're desperate - some people are exhibitionists [no, I don't understand why either], some people enjoy that kind of work, some people do it for reasons neither of us have imagined); generally you're trying to impose your moral standards on to others.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - spigottoday 3y ago
hfhdjdks 3y ago
Let's say you collect stamps. I think it's a stupid and morally irresponsible way of using your free time (you should be socializing or doing sports or learning something new). Just being honest with my opinion. This is all ok. The problem is when we start firing people or shunning them for stuff we don't like.
- Clubber 3y ago
  Let's take an example that's not a softball. What if your daughter's male elementary school teacher had a porn site and everyone in the class knew about it? How about your son's female middle school teacher? Apply to your therapist, or masseuse or whatever. Do you not see a conflict of interest? How much of a distraction would that be? That's not so black and white to me.
  - RHSeeger 3y ago
    This falls into the category of "effects their ability to perform their work" and (to some extent) "more harm than good" (because it impacts their ability to to do their work. And, in that case, it may be reasonable to no longer employ them for that role. I expect it's similar to sportsball players that have ethical clauses in their contracts; the point of their job is to bring in money for the team and, if people despise them for their actions, they may not be able to do that.
- bediger4000 3y ago
  If I chose not to hang around someone who continually brings their politics or their religion into whatever is going on, am I shunning them? Let's say I read paleontology for fun. Can I avoid Young Earth Creationists socially, or am I shunning them?
  - whstl 3y ago
    That's a very strange question. Not hanging out with someone is obviously fine, and it's your choice. Firing or publicly shunning someone is a totally different matter.
nullstyle 3y ago
I'm curious: "no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors." Why is "accept" the verb used in this statement? Why not "tolerate" or "allow" or "grudgingly ignore"? To state my perspective by way of personal anecdote: I find it shitty that I have neighbors who like to run their errands with pistols strapped to their waists like they want to be Wyatt Earp when they grow up, but my acceptance or non-acceptance of the situation is irrelevant. I don't feel like I'm forced to accept the situation just because I have no right or power to change it by myself. As an aside: I bet if I tried to go get those neighbors of mine fired for their open-carry, I would end up shot.
CogitoCogito 3y ago
I don't approve of many things that other people do, but I do accept the vast majority. I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by porn just as I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by religion. In the end, however, I find it easier to instead live and let live. I would hope you choose to the do the same instead of bothering others about their private lives.
GuB-42 3y ago
I don't share your opinion. But besides that, if you think about it. Firing people for doing porn as a side job is effectively forcing people into doing porn as a full time job. OnlyFans doesn't fire people for having a regular day job, so guess what remains as a revenue source.

Spooky23 3y ago

The problem is that the line is very arbitrary and capricious. I work for a government entity, and am subject to a variety of ethics laws that dictate certain aspects of my behavior outside of work. It’s onerous and heavy handed, but at least there are rules and case law to provide some level of due process and fairness. It still sucks - I actually have a social life, and I have to be very careful about who I’m around and that there is no problematic perceptions. With private sector employers, especially entities that aren’t publicly traded, you don’t always know where you stand and the rules are subject to the whims of people whom you may not even know. If you aren’t in a public facing role authoritatively representing the company or using the company to promote your outside activity, it should be a non issue. How many gays were drummed out and persecuted before the law protected them?

rayiner 3y ago
> I have to be very careful about who I’m around and that there is no problematic perceptions That seems like society working as intended!
- Spooky23 3y ago
  It is - but the key thing is there are rules and due process. When your boss decides your swimsuit pictures are too titillating for you to be an accountant for a car dealership, different story.

flandish 3y ago

Well, in some nation states one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A properly managed corporation would instill that mindset, stop things from being hostile, remind others of that “right” and then go from there. The problem is that all corporations ignore this right and hedge proposed changes in profit at the expense of the working class employee’s means to life or insurance or both.