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Well that's one hell of a whatboutism. Just for your info, Israel killed more civilians since October than Russia did in Ukraine since 2014. That's why we focus

Well that's one hell of a whatboutism. Just for your info, Israel killed more civilians since October than Russia did in Ukraine since 2014. That's why we focus on them. If anything, the complete lack of western official condemnation regarding that is a perfect example of just how much slack is given to israel. Also, Israel is extremely open about its plans which also makes it easy to be really quite alarmed. What more is needed? >On October 10th an Israeli official told a television station: “Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents. There will be no buildings.” Daniel Hagari, an idf spokesperson, boasted that “hundreds of tons of bombs” had been dropped on Gaza. Then, he added: “the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.”

bitcurious 3y ago
I see this curious bit of misinformation repeated quite often, but believing it requires one to be quite credulous. You have to believe Hamas casualty numbers but ignore IDF, AND you have to believe Russian casualty number but ignore Ukraine’s. Weird, right? If you listen to Ukrainians, who I have to believe are at least as credible as Hamas, something like 25k civilians died in Mariupol’ alone.
dralley 3y ago
> Just for your info, Israel killed more civilians since October than Russia did in Ukraine since 2014 Just for your info, that's complete BS. The people making this claim are comparing the deaths in Ukraine which the UN has independently confirmed (and discriminated from military casualties) against claims which have not been independently confirmed nor discriminated from military casualties. Russia does not allow investigators behind their lines, so the official figures are a significant undercount - a fact which the UN themselves have specifically called out themselves as being the case. It is entirely possible and even likely that more Ukrainian civilians died in Mariupol alone than in all of Gaza. At a minimum, as of more than a year ago, there were 10,300 new graves dug around Mariupol, as seen from satellite pictures. Pictures of those graves suggest that many of them contain more than one body, which was also the case in Lyman when the mass graves there were excavated. But none of the new graves in Mariupol are in the UN statistics because they cannot be considered "verified" without access. And the stories of what has been going on in Mariupol from the handful of people that managed to escape and get back to Ukraine are every bit as bad as Gaza if not worse. And that's one city. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariupol-methodology-f74b28016b8dea4b82811655f14931f2 https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariup...
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  To be clear I'm not trying to minimize Ukrainian deaths. My point was more so that it was at least comparable, and in the same order of magnitude. Yet the international reaction to one is completely different to the other ( I mean, in terms of concrete action against Israel and Russia). That's the double standard and the unlimited "slack" given to Israel that I was talking about. The IDF can come up with any excuse for bombing any number of civilians, with absolutely 0 proof given and again, they are just automatically believed. I mean, they are cautious about civilian deaths... they told us so!
  - dralley 3y ago
    That isn't at all clear from your comment, your claims are pretty direct and concrete.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Yeah, I want to edit my original comment and correct the false stats I gave but I don't want to remove the context for the comments correcting me. In any case, I was wrong about that part!
williamcotton 3y ago
[flagged]

bitcurious 3y ago

I see this curious bit of misinformation repeated quite often, but believing it requires one to be quite credulous. You have to believe Hamas casualty numbers but ignore IDF, AND you have to believe Russian casualty number but ignore Ukraine’s. Weird, right? If you listen to Ukrainians, who I have to believe are at least as credible as Hamas, something like 25k civilians died in Mariupol’ alone.

dralley 3y ago

> Just for your info, Israel killed more civilians since October than Russia did in Ukraine since 2014 Just for your info, that's complete BS. The people making this claim are comparing the deaths in Ukraine which the UN has independently confirmed (and discriminated from military casualties) against claims which have not been independently confirmed nor discriminated from military casualties. Russia does not allow investigators behind their lines, so the official figures are a significant undercount - a fact which the UN themselves have specifically called out themselves as being the case. It is entirely possible and even likely that more Ukrainian civilians died in Mariupol alone than in all of Gaza. At a minimum, as of more than a year ago, there were 10,300 new graves dug around Mariupol, as seen from satellite pictures. Pictures of those graves suggest that many of them contain more than one body, which was also the case in Lyman when the mass graves there were excavated. But none of the new graves in Mariupol are in the UN statistics because they cannot be considered "verified" without access. And the stories of what has been going on in Mariupol from the handful of people that managed to escape and get back to Ukraine are every bit as bad as Gaza if not worse. And that's one city. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariupol-methodology-f74b28016b8dea4b82811655f14931f2 https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariup...

mardifoufs 3y ago
To be clear I'm not trying to minimize Ukrainian deaths. My point was more so that it was at least comparable, and in the same order of magnitude. Yet the international reaction to one is completely different to the other ( I mean, in terms of concrete action against Israel and Russia). That's the double standard and the unlimited "slack" given to Israel that I was talking about. The IDF can come up with any excuse for bombing any number of civilians, with absolutely 0 proof given and again, they are just automatically believed. I mean, they are cautious about civilian deaths... they told us so!
- dralley 3y ago
  That isn't at all clear from your comment, your claims are pretty direct and concrete.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Yeah, I want to edit my original comment and correct the false stats I gave but I don't want to remove the context for the comments correcting me. In any case, I was wrong about that part!

williamcotton 3y ago

[flagged]