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> A few decades from now, I think Lynch's Dune will be looked upon more favorably than the recent films. By whom? Lynch's has been out for decades and is at 6.

> A few decades from now, I think Lynch's Dune will be looked upon more favorably than the recent films. By whom? Lynch's has been out for decades and is at 6.3: * https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/ Villeneuve's is currently at 8.0: * https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/ The RT for each are at 44% and 83%: * https://www.rottentomatoes.com/search?search=Dune https://www.rottentomatoes.com/search?search=Dune Even with recency bias, do you think their scores will change much in 20+ years? The recent one was so "indistinguishable" from recent sci-fi movies it won Best Original Score, Sound, Film Editing, Cinematography, Production Design, and Visual Effects: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Dune_(2021_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_... How many other sci-fi films even get nominated (including Best Picture and Screenplay), let alone win? What were the accolades for Lynch's movie? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Accolades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Accolades

djoletina 3y ago
People tend to project their personal preferences with an aura of superiority to the unknown future when everyone will ascend to their level and reach enlightenment.
- glitchcrab 3y ago
  Yup, too many overconfident people mistake their own subjective opinion for fact and then tell others that their opinion is wrong.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  It's rife in the arts. Such a thing would never happen in my preferred field of engineering, of course...
- sho_hn 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I think he is most likely correct that 20 years from now, any discussion of Dune and its adaptations will call Lynch's version "inventive, but flawed" and Villeneuve's "drab and lifeless, aimed at movie-goers who had freshly aged out of Iron Man and wanted to feel like it". I can practically feel this article stare at me from the screen already, too. And it probably wants to provoke a little. If anyone still cares, that is. The reception of Lynch's version will continue to be colored by his overall ouvre, and it's all just so much more interesting and charming for anyone who has to see and write about movies all week long.
  - djoletina 3y ago
    That article will be an expression of an opinion which could be written today as well. Doesn’t make it fact. Tastes shouldn’t be discussed.
keiferski 3y ago
I said "a few decades from now" because I wanted to highlight the fact that the recent Dune movies are unremarkable and similar to other films made today, whereas the 80s Dune is fairly unique, even for the 80s. In other words: in 2050, Dune 2021 will be perceived as just another sci-fi film, whereas Dune 1984 will still be weird and unique. As a side note: does anyone take RT or the Oscars seriously anymore? That whole line of argument isn't very compelling to me, but I guess it is for some. And as a final comment: note that I didn't say Dune 1984 was an amazing film, I just said it would be looked at more favorably than the current films because of its uniqueness. This tends to happen to older films: the solid-but-boring ones get forgotten, while the weird-but-unique ones develop a cult following and get re-evaluated positively.
- throw0101d 3y ago
  > In other words: in 2050, Dune 2021 will be perceived as just another sci-fi film, whereas Dune 1984 will still be weird and unique. Just like The Room is "weird and unique"? :) > As a side note: does anyone take RT or the Oscars seriously anymore? That whole line of argument isn't very compelling to me, but I guess it is for some. How much would you agree or disagree with this 'ranking' of Lynch's works? * https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/david-lynch/ https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/david-lynch/
  - keiferski 3y ago
    The Room is an extreme example because it’s mostly remembered for being so bad that it’s funny, but sure: it has had a thousand times more influence than the hundreds of competent but procedural thrillers that came out at the same time. It will still be watched in fifty years. I don’t like that list at all and think it’s basically a list of how “traditional” the Lynch film is. I’d put Mulholland Drive first personally.
  - broscillator 3y ago
    Only had to look at the first two spots to strongly disagree.
  - jihiggins 3y ago
throwaway44110 3y ago
By everyone who has seen the Extended cut on YouTube. They took a lot of important scenes out of that movie, which Lynch hated.
low_tech_love 3y ago
These are all personal opinions, but I agree that the first Dune is a much more interesting movie than the newer one. Awards are much more about politics and trend engineering than anything else. It’s good when they are on your side but I bet I can find highly awarded movies that you hate. Villeneuve’s Dune looks like what a very advanced moviemaking ChatGPT would do: technically flawless, completely soulless, and an absolute snore fest. Lynch’s Dune is flawed, but full of character, and excitingly weird. It’s not a superb movie but then again the comparison isn’t either.
- keiferski 3y ago
  Your ChatGPT comment is a perfect description of Villeneuve’s movies and I’ve thought similar things for a long time. There’s just something missing that prevents them from being great.
  - low_tech_love 3y ago
    It’s a real shame, because he is technically brilliant. Blade Runner 2049 is one of the most beautifully shot/edited movies I’ve ever seen, but it just cannot reach me beyond the surface. If you’re interested in seeing him put his skills to tell an actual impactful story, watch Incendies. By far his best movie.
    - indigodaddy 3y ago
      Also Prisoners and Enemy were impactful imo (and Sicario of course). I feel like where Villeneuve fails in that respect, filmmakers such as Nicholas Winding Refn succeed— I just watched Drive for the first time (I know I know), and it was one of the best cinematic experiences I’ve had in probably 5 years. Even though the film had a bit of a distant, hands-off quality, one connected with the film and characters completely (a lot of that maybe had to do with Gosling’s impeccable performance, but I’m sure the director had something to do with it).
      - low_tech_love 3y ago
cowboyscott 3y ago
No offense meant to OP, but this is a good example how the commercialization of criticism can really suck the joy out of things.
ekianjo 3y ago
> By whom? Lynch's has been out for decades and is at 6.3: IMDB has a well known bias towards newer movies.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Citation needed; the top X on IMDB has a mix of recent (2014's Interstellar) and older (1972's The Godfather) films in their top ranked films: https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/ https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/ Of course, rankings on any platform should be taken with a grain of salt; if you like the film you like it, can't argue with taste or personal preference. Ranking tries to apply an objective fact (a number, an expert's say-so) to an inherently subjective question (did you enjoy it).
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    Citation I dont have but I analyzed score dumps before from imdb and there was a clear correlation between recency and higher score over time
ekianjo 3y ago
> sci-fi films even get nominated (including Best Picture and Screenplay), let alone win? What were the accolades for Lynch's movie? Most of the time the awards are just about rewarding relationships in the business. They have no bearing on movie quality.
asylteltine 3y ago
The new dune is just better. Some people can’t get around that fact and I think it’s the same realm as retro computing. Sure it’s cool, it’s interesting, it’s fun, but it’s not better. I think they have the same “hobby” as retro computing but won’t admit it so to speak.
fasterik 3y ago
I generally don't trust IMDB or RT scores, but I agree with your assessment. They Shoot Pictures Don't They [1] has always been my go to for critically acclaimed movies. Neither Dune film makes it to their top 1000 of all time. The new Dune is #430 in the 21st century, which isn't spectacular, but it's ranked above some movies that I would consider quite good. I'm a huge fan of Lynch and enjoy the original Dune for what it is, but there has been plenty of time for the critical assessment of it to settle, and it doesn't look good. [1] https://www.theyshootpictures.com/ https://www.theyshootpictures.com/

djoletina 3y ago

People tend to project their personal preferences with an aura of superiority to the unknown future when everyone will ascend to their level and reach enlightenment.

glitchcrab 3y ago
Yup, too many overconfident people mistake their own subjective opinion for fact and then tell others that their opinion is wrong.
HPsquared 3y ago
It's rife in the arts. Such a thing would never happen in my preferred field of engineering, of course...
sho_hn 3y ago
For what it's worth, I think he is most likely correct that 20 years from now, any discussion of Dune and its adaptations will call Lynch's version "inventive, but flawed" and Villeneuve's "drab and lifeless, aimed at movie-goers who had freshly aged out of Iron Man and wanted to feel like it". I can practically feel this article stare at me from the screen already, too. And it probably wants to provoke a little. If anyone still cares, that is. The reception of Lynch's version will continue to be colored by his overall ouvre, and it's all just so much more interesting and charming for anyone who has to see and write about movies all week long.
- djoletina 3y ago
  That article will be an expression of an opinion which could be written today as well. Doesn’t make it fact. Tastes shouldn’t be discussed.

keiferski 3y ago

I said "a few decades from now" because I wanted to highlight the fact that the recent Dune movies are unremarkable and similar to other films made today, whereas the 80s Dune is fairly unique, even for the 80s. In other words: in 2050, Dune 2021 will be perceived as just another sci-fi film, whereas Dune 1984 will still be weird and unique. As a side note: does anyone take RT or the Oscars seriously anymore? That whole line of argument isn't very compelling to me, but I guess it is for some. And as a final comment: note that I didn't say Dune 1984 was an amazing film, I just said it would be looked at more favorably than the current films because of its uniqueness. This tends to happen to older films: the solid-but-boring ones get forgotten, while the weird-but-unique ones develop a cult following and get re-evaluated positively.

throw0101d 3y ago
> In other words: in 2050, Dune 2021 will be perceived as just another sci-fi film, whereas Dune 1984 will still be weird and unique. Just like The Room is "weird and unique"? :) > As a side note: does anyone take RT or the Oscars seriously anymore? That whole line of argument isn't very compelling to me, but I guess it is for some. How much would you agree or disagree with this 'ranking' of Lynch's works? * https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/david-lynch/ https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/david-lynch/
- keiferski 3y ago
  The Room is an extreme example because it’s mostly remembered for being so bad that it’s funny, but sure: it has had a thousand times more influence than the hundreds of competent but procedural thrillers that came out at the same time. It will still be watched in fifty years. I don’t like that list at all and think it’s basically a list of how “traditional” the Lynch film is. I’d put Mulholland Drive first personally.
- broscillator 3y ago
  Only had to look at the first two spots to strongly disagree.
- jihiggins 3y ago

throwaway44110 3y ago

By everyone who has seen the Extended cut on YouTube. They took a lot of important scenes out of that movie, which Lynch hated.

low_tech_love 3y ago

These are all personal opinions, but I agree that the first Dune is a much more interesting movie than the newer one. Awards are much more about politics and trend engineering than anything else. It’s good when they are on your side but I bet I can find highly awarded movies that you hate. Villeneuve’s Dune looks like what a very advanced moviemaking ChatGPT would do: technically flawless, completely soulless, and an absolute snore fest. Lynch’s Dune is flawed, but full of character, and excitingly weird. It’s not a superb movie but then again the comparison isn’t either.

keiferski 3y ago
Your ChatGPT comment is a perfect description of Villeneuve’s movies and I’ve thought similar things for a long time. There’s just something missing that prevents them from being great.
- low_tech_love 3y ago
  It’s a real shame, because he is technically brilliant. Blade Runner 2049 is one of the most beautifully shot/edited movies I’ve ever seen, but it just cannot reach me beyond the surface. If you’re interested in seeing him put his skills to tell an actual impactful story, watch Incendies. By far his best movie.
  - indigodaddy 3y ago
    Also Prisoners and Enemy were impactful imo (and Sicario of course). I feel like where Villeneuve fails in that respect, filmmakers such as Nicholas Winding Refn succeed— I just watched Drive for the first time (I know I know), and it was one of the best cinematic experiences I’ve had in probably 5 years. Even though the film had a bit of a distant, hands-off quality, one connected with the film and characters completely (a lot of that maybe had to do with Gosling’s impeccable performance, but I’m sure the director had something to do with it).
    - low_tech_love 3y ago

cowboyscott 3y ago

No offense meant to OP, but this is a good example how the commercialization of criticism can really suck the joy out of things.

ekianjo 3y ago

> By whom? Lynch's has been out for decades and is at 6.3: IMDB has a well known bias towards newer movies.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Citation needed; the top X on IMDB has a mix of recent (2014's Interstellar) and older (1972's The Godfather) films in their top ranked films: https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/ https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/ Of course, rankings on any platform should be taken with a grain of salt; if you like the film you like it, can't argue with taste or personal preference. Ranking tries to apply an objective fact (a number, an expert's say-so) to an inherently subjective question (did you enjoy it).
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Citation I dont have but I analyzed score dumps before from imdb and there was a clear correlation between recency and higher score over time

ekianjo 3y ago

> sci-fi films even get nominated (including Best Picture and Screenplay), let alone win? What were the accolades for Lynch's movie? Most of the time the awards are just about rewarding relationships in the business. They have no bearing on movie quality.

asylteltine 3y ago

The new dune is just better. Some people can’t get around that fact and I think it’s the same realm as retro computing. Sure it’s cool, it’s interesting, it’s fun, but it’s not better. I think they have the same “hobby” as retro computing but won’t admit it so to speak.

fasterik 3y ago

I generally don't trust IMDB or RT scores, but I agree with your assessment. They Shoot Pictures Don't They [1] has always been my go to for critically acclaimed movies. Neither Dune film makes it to their top 1000 of all time. The new Dune is #430 in the 21st century, which isn't spectacular, but it's ranked above some movies that I would consider quite good. I'm a huge fan of Lynch and enjoy the original Dune for what it is, but there has been plenty of time for the critical assessment of it to settle, and it doesn't look good. [1] https://www.theyshootpictures.com/ https://www.theyshootpictures.com/