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Thats the point, the power will be abused. Free markets subvert toxic heirarchies and inefficient industries, thats how america was designed to work, private ca

Thats the point, the power will be abused. Free markets subvert toxic heirarchies and inefficient industries, thats how america was designed to work, private capital formation and the ability to compete freely. When you need to resort to political means to achieve your ends you violate peoples rights, those rights are considered above the authority of the government.

JohnFen 3y ago
> Free markets subvert toxic heirarchies and inefficient industries But a free market cannot exist in the absence of regulation, and regulation is a form of government.
- pdonis 3y ago
  > a free market cannot exist in the absence of regulation As you are using the term "regulation" (see below), this is false. A free market is in fact exactly what you do get in the absence of government regulation: all transactions are voluntary. Only governments can force people to engage in market transactions they don't want to engage in, or prevent them from engaging in market transactions they do want to engage in. > regulation is a form of government Not necessarily. A true free market is regulated by the voluntary choices of all of its participants. No government is required. Government regulation replaces or overrides regulation by voluntary choices of market participants.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > A free market is in fact exactly what you do get in the absence of government regulation No, you don't. At least not for very long. In the absence of regulation, a free market will always devolve into monopoly as one player leverages their advantages to absorb more and more of the market. This effect snowballs -- the more successful a company is, the more easily they can monopolize ever larger parts. And that's not even mentioning that in the absence of regulation, companies will engage in profitable activities that are very harmful for everyone. Environmental issues, externalizing business costs, etc.
  - carbotaniuman 3y ago
    A gun can also force people to participate in transactions they don't want to engage in.
    - pdonis 3y ago
      Sure, and that can happen whether there is a government or not. In fact, in the US, courts up to and including the Supreme Court have ruled that the government has no affirmative duty to protect individuals from crime. I don't think laws against crime were the sort of regulation of markets that the post I responded to was talking about. But in any case, if the existence of crime is sufficient to make markets not free, then free markets don't exist with government any more than they would without it.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Free markets subvert toxic heirarchies and inefficient industries But a free market cannot exist in the absence of regulation, and regulation is a form of government.

pdonis 3y ago
> a free market cannot exist in the absence of regulation As you are using the term "regulation" (see below), this is false. A free market is in fact exactly what you do get in the absence of government regulation: all transactions are voluntary. Only governments can force people to engage in market transactions they don't want to engage in, or prevent them from engaging in market transactions they do want to engage in. > regulation is a form of government Not necessarily. A true free market is regulated by the voluntary choices of all of its participants. No government is required. Government regulation replaces or overrides regulation by voluntary choices of market participants.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > A free market is in fact exactly what you do get in the absence of government regulation No, you don't. At least not for very long. In the absence of regulation, a free market will always devolve into monopoly as one player leverages their advantages to absorb more and more of the market. This effect snowballs -- the more successful a company is, the more easily they can monopolize ever larger parts. And that's not even mentioning that in the absence of regulation, companies will engage in profitable activities that are very harmful for everyone. Environmental issues, externalizing business costs, etc.
- carbotaniuman 3y ago
  A gun can also force people to participate in transactions they don't want to engage in.
  - pdonis 3y ago
    Sure, and that can happen whether there is a government or not. In fact, in the US, courts up to and including the Supreme Court have ruled that the government has no affirmative duty to protect individuals from crime. I don't think laws against crime were the sort of regulation of markets that the post I responded to was talking about. But in any case, if the existence of crime is sufficient to make markets not free, then free markets don't exist with government any more than they would without it.