5 ms·

Domesticated cats are by far the biggest threats to birds worldwide. You won't see anti-wind advocates talking about curfews or outright banning them though.

Loughla 3y ago
That's because cats are not a power source? I'm genuinely confused how they would even be part of this conversation.
- wanderingbit 3y ago
  I think they're bringing it up because cats are indeed the #1 killer of birds, and so for people who care about maintaining bird populations (presumably people who read this article) it would be better to focus on solutions that decrease the damage cats to do birds, rather than the damage wind turbines + oil-and-gas plants do to birds. Of course, if you care about birds you're going to try to solve it across multiple fronts. But cat damage should be the first thing bird-lovers try to mitigate.
  - wingworks 3y ago
    Also dogs aren't great for bird populations. Especially here in NZ where we have some flightless birds. I would even argue that dogs are a bigger issue here. At least around where I live, a large majority of people own at least 1 dog and often go walking with them in native reserves, often ignoring on-lead or no dog rules.
  - belorn 3y ago
    Are the bird species that cat kills the same ones that "wind turbines + oil-and-gas plants" kill?
    - Grimburger 3y ago
      Cat kills are basically indiscriminate, from anecdotal evidence I'd say that turbine strikes are probably not and certain species are more likely to get hit. In Australia at least there's species who routinely get hit by cars and others which rarely do. That said, the enormous delta in raw numbers makes this line of argument quite spurious. Wind turbine bird strikes are magnitudes smaller than deaths from domestic cats. > Collectively, roaming pet cats kill 546 million animals per year in Australia https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Pet-cat-impacts-June-2023.pdf https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Pet-cat-... > Cats kill more than a million birds every day across Australia, according to our new estimate — the first robust attempt to quantify the problem on a nationwide scale. > By combining data on the cat population, hunting rates and spatial distribution, we calculate that they kill 377 million birds a year. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-million-birds-in-australia-every-day-estimates/9013960 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-mill... > a report on bird and avifauna mortality commissioned by AGL Energy for its Macarthur Wind Farm found that 10.19 birds were killed by each turbine in a 12 month period. This equates to over 1 400 birds killed at the Macarthur Wind Farm alone and over 21 000 if extrapolated across the country. This is likely underestimated due to scavenging but still magnitudes of difference. https://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/senate/wind_turbines/wind_turbines/~/media/Committees/wind_ctte/Final_Report/c05.pdf https://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/sen...
- knodi123 3y ago
  Because anti-wind activists have brought them up.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    More specifically, it's a disingenuous argument brought up by oil lobbyists. It's directly comparable to gun nuts justifying their right to own weapons designed to murder people by claiming that it's for "protection". Those same people have zero interest in better door locks, stronger windows, or anything that would actually protect them. They just want the guns. The protection argument was never made in good faith, it's an excuse at best. The "wind generators kill birds" argument is the same type of thing, typically made by people that would cheerfully feed every native bird they can into a grinder and sell the pulp for a profit if they could.
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      Except Bald Eagles.
    - ThunderSizzle 3y ago
      > It's directly comparable to gun nuts justifying their right to own weapons designed to murder people by claiming that it's for "protection". Those same people have zero interest in better door locks, stronger windows, or anything that would actually protect them. Ah, it's your fault for being robbed or mugged, and killed in the process - you should've just had a better lock or not go downtown for a show. In fact, we should victim-blame more often - we should just tell rape victims they should've had more clothes - you were asking for it after all. Probably should tell convenience store clerks to get a different job. We should tell police officers that they don't need guns to stop criminals with guns.
      - MeImCounting 3y ago
        Well cops definitely shouldnt have guns but everything else I agree with.
- hatthew 3y ago
  > cats are not a power source until you involve buttered toast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc
- scotty79 3y ago
  That just shows that it's not a conversation about birds. Birds are only incidental and brought up for the emotional (not actual) value.
gopher_space 3y ago
It feels like the assumption was always that I'd forget the oil industry doesn't give a shit about wildlife.
EasyMark 3y ago
Ban my cat and you'll likely lose someone who does regularly vote for environmentally friendly politicians and you may get a new voting pattern out of me, and a lot of other people I suspect.
- MattGrommes 3y ago
  Nobody wants to ban cats. A lot of people would like to keep them indoors though, which would be great for birds and also for the cats. I live on the southern edge of Portland, OR and coyotes make meals of a lot of people's precious fur-babies.
switchbak 3y ago
My understanding is that feral cats kill far more than domesticated cats (as you'd expect), but this gets folded in under "cats kill $number of birds". They're still impressive little killers, but that's important to keep in mind.

Loughla 3y ago

That's because cats are not a power source? I'm genuinely confused how they would even be part of this conversation.

wanderingbit 3y ago
I think they're bringing it up because cats are indeed the #1 killer of birds, and so for people who care about maintaining bird populations (presumably people who read this article) it would be better to focus on solutions that decrease the damage cats to do birds, rather than the damage wind turbines + oil-and-gas plants do to birds. Of course, if you care about birds you're going to try to solve it across multiple fronts. But cat damage should be the first thing bird-lovers try to mitigate.
- wingworks 3y ago
  Also dogs aren't great for bird populations. Especially here in NZ where we have some flightless birds. I would even argue that dogs are a bigger issue here. At least around where I live, a large majority of people own at least 1 dog and often go walking with them in native reserves, often ignoring on-lead or no dog rules.
- belorn 3y ago
  Are the bird species that cat kills the same ones that "wind turbines + oil-and-gas plants" kill?
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    Cat kills are basically indiscriminate, from anecdotal evidence I'd say that turbine strikes are probably not and certain species are more likely to get hit. In Australia at least there's species who routinely get hit by cars and others which rarely do. That said, the enormous delta in raw numbers makes this line of argument quite spurious. Wind turbine bird strikes are magnitudes smaller than deaths from domestic cats. > Collectively, roaming pet cats kill 546 million animals per year in Australia https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Pet-cat-impacts-June-2023.pdf https://invasives.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Pet-cat-... > Cats kill more than a million birds every day across Australia, according to our new estimate — the first robust attempt to quantify the problem on a nationwide scale. > By combining data on the cat population, hunting rates and spatial distribution, we calculate that they kill 377 million birds a year. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-million-birds-in-australia-every-day-estimates/9013960 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-mill... > a report on bird and avifauna mortality commissioned by AGL Energy for its Macarthur Wind Farm found that 10.19 birds were killed by each turbine in a 12 month period. This equates to over 1 400 birds killed at the Macarthur Wind Farm alone and over 21 000 if extrapolated across the country. This is likely underestimated due to scavenging but still magnitudes of difference. https://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/senate/wind_turbines/wind_turbines/~/media/Committees/wind_ctte/Final_Report/c05.pdf https://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/sen...
knodi123 3y ago
Because anti-wind activists have brought them up.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  More specifically, it's a disingenuous argument brought up by oil lobbyists. It's directly comparable to gun nuts justifying their right to own weapons designed to murder people by claiming that it's for "protection". Those same people have zero interest in better door locks, stronger windows, or anything that would actually protect them. They just want the guns. The protection argument was never made in good faith, it's an excuse at best. The "wind generators kill birds" argument is the same type of thing, typically made by people that would cheerfully feed every native bird they can into a grinder and sell the pulp for a profit if they could.
  - ithkuil 3y ago
    Except Bald Eagles.
  - ThunderSizzle 3y ago
    > It's directly comparable to gun nuts justifying their right to own weapons designed to murder people by claiming that it's for "protection". Those same people have zero interest in better door locks, stronger windows, or anything that would actually protect them. Ah, it's your fault for being robbed or mugged, and killed in the process - you should've just had a better lock or not go downtown for a show. In fact, we should victim-blame more often - we should just tell rape victims they should've had more clothes - you were asking for it after all. Probably should tell convenience store clerks to get a different job. We should tell police officers that they don't need guns to stop criminals with guns.
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      Well cops definitely shouldnt have guns but everything else I agree with.
hatthew 3y ago
> cats are not a power source until you involve buttered toast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc
scotty79 3y ago
That just shows that it's not a conversation about birds. Birds are only incidental and brought up for the emotional (not actual) value.

gopher_space 3y ago

It feels like the assumption was always that I'd forget the oil industry doesn't give a shit about wildlife.

EasyMark 3y ago

Ban my cat and you'll likely lose someone who does regularly vote for environmentally friendly politicians and you may get a new voting pattern out of me, and a lot of other people I suspect.

MattGrommes 3y ago
Nobody wants to ban cats. A lot of people would like to keep them indoors though, which would be great for birds and also for the cats. I live on the southern edge of Portland, OR and coyotes make meals of a lot of people's precious fur-babies.

switchbak 3y ago

My understanding is that feral cats kill far more than domesticated cats (as you'd expect), but this gets folded in under "cats kill $number of birds". They're still impressive little killers, but that's important to keep in mind.