5 ms·

I've been on Arch for 2 years now after seeing the cancer that is Windows 11. Ads and "news" on your desktop, garbage free to play games preinstalled or linked

I've been on Arch for 2 years now after seeing the cancer that is Windows 11. Ads and "news" on your desktop, garbage free to play games preinstalled or linked to. OneDrive your user dir(Desktop, Documents) to the cloud, Outlook feeding your mails to the cloud. All this will be used against people to sell more targeted ads and other BS. It used to be that Windows was reasonably solid with good performance for dev and gaming. Now Linux is far superior in both aspects.

hatthew 3y ago
When I install windows on my gaming PC, I spend 15 minutes to disable web search in the start menu, uninstall random games, change what's on my taskbar, etc. It usually lasts multiple years without me seeing any random software I don't want. I can then run literally every single game I have ever wanted to play with no issues. I would enjoy it if all games had first party linux support and I could switch to it permanently, but at the moment gaming on windows has several pros and negligible cons compared to gaming on linux. Not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that linux is far superior for gaming.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Not OP, but probably because I don't have to waste 15 mins, and I haven't had a game fail me. And I don't have to worry about Windows updates reverting the "15 min changes", or deciding that I need credits to use notepad.
  - ActionHank 3y ago
    Forgot about the updates, good point
  - cookie_monsta 3y ago
    > I need credits to use notepad What does this mean?
    - Rychard 3y ago
      It's a tongue in cheek response to Microsoft's increasingly numerous attempts to further monetize the Windows platform. They're not charging for notepad today, but you never know.
    - CursedUrn 3y ago
      It's probably a reference to Notepad getting AI features in Windows 11
    - happymellon 3y ago
      https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24032117/microsoft-windows-notepad-generative-ai-option https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24032117/microsoft-windows...
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Me experience is that the average windows install has a year long lifespan and then it needs a reinstall. It just feels slower at that point. Beyond that it’s a matter of principle. Why would I use an OS where the company wants to farm me for ad revenue. I am not livestock. If I pay for it, that’s an even bigger slap in the face.
- anticorporate 3y ago
  I've gone back and forth on this over the years. I'm glad 15 minutes has been your experience. For me, who does not use Windows at all for other purposes, it has taken considerably longer than 15 minutes to figure out where all the settings are to disable and uninstall annoyances. As somebody who stopped using Windows in the XP era, none of the settings are where I remember them being more than a decade ago when I last seriously used that OS for anything. Since I'd only use Windows for gaming, there's also a non-trivial amount of time spent rebooting into Windows, and the slight annoyance of having to either keep a remote desktop tool open or a laptop nearby if I wanted to do something else on the computer other than launch a game. And since my gaming computer is custom built, there's also a non-trivial expense of purchasing a Windows license. The one compromise I have considered is keeping a dedicated Windows gaming PC in a closet and using Steam Link so I can actually play the games on my preferred device, whether it's at my desk or on the TV. It doesn't solve everything I mentioned above but at least it gets closer to the set-it-and-forget-it approach you've taken.
  - xcrunner529 3y ago
    What OS doesn’t have this problem? Linux and Mac have both had major changes and move things around. Mac completely redid System Preferences to Settings and Linux changes frequently and even by distribution.
    - anticorporate 3y ago
      I never claimed any other OS was any different in that people who are particular will need to configure them, I'm just pointing out that as someone who never uses Windows for anything else except gaming, the cost of fixing the annoyances instead of using Wine for playing games is higher than 15 minutes. That said, I'm generally more comfortable adapting to whatever random version of a window manager and desktop a Linux distribution ships with than putting up with the "everything is AI now!" "now with more ads!" "find things only via search!" type things that show up in the Windows UX.
    - aldanor 3y ago
      macOS changed the visual looks of preferences and rearranged things, but if you had a bash script that just did a bunch of "defaults write", it would still work for the most part.
al_hag 3y ago
Absent considerations about identities being stored by third parties, what is the downside of targeted ads? I found myself wishing for more targeted ads after listening to yet another random fast food ad the other day.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Because there shouldn’t be ads on my desktop. It’s become so normalized that people have been brainbroken into thinking it is fine.
- lend000 3y ago
  IMO the problem is not that ads are better targeted, but the fact that they exist at all on the OS (let alone an OS I paid money for). Microsoft is truly cancer.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  You are assuming ads as a default. Assume no ads as a default, then ask "What is the downside of targeted ads versus no ads".
- andsmedeiros 3y ago
  The downside of targeted ads, besides the targeted thing, is the ads thing.
- thefurdrake 3y ago
  The fact that the targeting part is the output of a multibillion-dollar industry focused on scientific experimentation on humans without informed consent. Also the fact that they're ads. That's a problem, too. Basically the whole thing is one big downside for everyone who isn't in adtech or trying to sell you shit you otherwise wouldn't buy.
csouzaf 3y ago
Probably worth to take a look https://atlasos.net/ https://atlasos.net/
- notso411 3y ago
  All that website says is some vague description about what it is without saying what it is and a downloadable and download counter. Awful website.
  - eric-hu 3y ago
    Sounds like a gaming and privacy focused modification of windows based on my read of the FAQ https://docs.atlasos.net/faq-and-troubleshooting/removed-features/ https://docs.atlasos.net/faq-and-troubleshooting/removed-fea...
  - xcv123 3y ago
    "A modification of Windows, designed for gamers." "Performance: By Removing unnecessary components, disabling power-saving features, and optimizing services." "Privacy: By eliminating Microsoft's notorious tracking, pre-installed apps, and bloatware, you can feel confident when using Atlas." Github link https://github.com/atlas-os/atlas https://github.com/atlas-os/atlas I use this on my gaming PC. Works well for me.
- eric-hu 3y ago
  Do you run this? I’m curious what your experience (and others) are with it. I have a Pop!OS box and it was a little work to set up. I was mostly pleased with the result, though. Steam experimental Proton had a wide range of my games library compared to regular Proton. I did run into major bugs running some of those games, but it was good for scratching a nostalgia itch.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Thank you, I will take a look at this if I ever need to go back.
nick_ 3y ago
Linux is not even close to matching Windows in gaming performance. Maybe for a small sub-set of games, but for the vast majority you're running them on Win32 and DX compatibility layers that each have overhead. Sometimes a lot.
- ramesh31 3y ago
  >Maybe for a small sub-set of games, but for the vast majority you're running them on Win32 and DX compatibility layers that each have overhead. Sometimes a lot. It really doesn't matter. You're talking theoretical benchmarks, when in reality the only thing that matters to someone playing is 60fps@4k. For a compatible game, any Linux machine is equally capable of acheiving that through Proton with a sufficient GPU. Particularly for Nvidia, where the linux drivers are equally as good or better than Windows at this point.
- Propelloni 3y ago
  You know, I wouldn't have objected if you had said something like "Linux does not match Windows in gaming perfomance" but you had to go to hyperbole and say "not even close" and that's just not true. Linux is astoundingly close to MS Windows if you consider that most games are not written for the Linux platform, but for MS Windows. That alone should give one pause for thought. Add "treating its users with respect" to the mix and Linux seems to be the better choice. It sure is good enough for me.
- aomix 3y ago
  The DX layer is interesting. Dxvk ranges from slightly slower to much, much faster. Older games are an unambiguous win and modern games seem to be a toss up. There’s a large user base for it on windows to get all the performance you can out of older PCs.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  SteamDeck has entered the chat. Low power device with low end specs, absolutely crushing games with those pesky compatibility layers. I play all my games on my PC, they work flawlessly save for 2 exceptions. Diablo 4 Beta took some tinkering, but I got it going after 20mins. Fortnite won't run because their anticheat isn't compatible, because Epic don't want it to be.
zeagle 3y ago
Strong disagree and this is from someone that used to use FreeBSD and now dual boots Fedora for my laptop and runs Debian for servers. I mean it took me more than 15 minutes to figure out how to get a fresh nobara 38 install to simply boot last time I tried this. For the sin of having an Nvidia 3070 graphics card I had to look up to where to change some settings in grub to boot to be able install the drivers and boot properly. My fedora running framework laptop can't detect one of the external monitors in my lenovo usb c dock if it is plugged in when it boots or after sleep. No lay person consumer is going to waste their time diagnosing this stuff.
- SR2Z 3y ago
  So don't use Fedora - use a distro that actually has a large, user-focused team working on it. Pop_OS COMES with NVIDIA drivers. You can't pick an enthusiast distro and then complain when you have to be... well, an _enthusiast_.
  - zeagle 3y ago
    I appreciate that. I did try ubuntu, pop, and fedora beforehand and had the same issue. I didn't want to make my original comment too long or to appear incidinary. It just didn't boot and my research led me to nobara. If you have any thoughts why it wouldn't work with a i7-10700k, rog b560-a, a 3070, 4k monitor via hdmi or dp, and a dual booting m2 ssd would be curious.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Nvidia drivers are a bit iffy sometimes, I will give you that. That said most major distros have builtin support and Arch has great docs for getting things going too.
  - zeagle 3y ago
    Unfortunate. Although it inspires me to try again this weeekend with the latest Pop!OS.
    - 3y ago
thefz 3y ago
> I've been on Arch for 2 years now after seeing the cancer that is Windows 11. Ads and "news" on your desktop, garbage free to play games preinstalled or linked to. Region dependent. Thanks to GDPR, you don't see any of this if you pick an EU region or "World" when installing Windows. > It used to be that Windows was reasonably solid with good performance for dev and gaming. Now Linux is far superior in both aspects. Non native games run well in Linux nowaday, but will always run better without Vulkan or any translation layer.

hatthew 3y ago

When I install windows on my gaming PC, I spend 15 minutes to disable web search in the start menu, uninstall random games, change what's on my taskbar, etc. It usually lasts multiple years without me seeing any random software I don't want. I can then run literally every single game I have ever wanted to play with no issues. I would enjoy it if all games had first party linux support and I could switch to it permanently, but at the moment gaming on windows has several pros and negligible cons compared to gaming on linux. Not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that linux is far superior for gaming.

happymellon 3y ago
Not OP, but probably because I don't have to waste 15 mins, and I haven't had a game fail me. And I don't have to worry about Windows updates reverting the "15 min changes", or deciding that I need credits to use notepad.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  Forgot about the updates, good point
- cookie_monsta 3y ago
  > I need credits to use notepad What does this mean?
  - Rychard 3y ago
    It's a tongue in cheek response to Microsoft's increasingly numerous attempts to further monetize the Windows platform. They're not charging for notepad today, but you never know.
  - CursedUrn 3y ago
    It's probably a reference to Notepad getting AI features in Windows 11
  - happymellon 3y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24032117/microsoft-windows-notepad-generative-ai-option https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24032117/microsoft-windows...
ActionHank 3y ago
Me experience is that the average windows install has a year long lifespan and then it needs a reinstall. It just feels slower at that point. Beyond that it’s a matter of principle. Why would I use an OS where the company wants to farm me for ad revenue. I am not livestock. If I pay for it, that’s an even bigger slap in the face.
anticorporate 3y ago
I've gone back and forth on this over the years. I'm glad 15 minutes has been your experience. For me, who does not use Windows at all for other purposes, it has taken considerably longer than 15 minutes to figure out where all the settings are to disable and uninstall annoyances. As somebody who stopped using Windows in the XP era, none of the settings are where I remember them being more than a decade ago when I last seriously used that OS for anything. Since I'd only use Windows for gaming, there's also a non-trivial amount of time spent rebooting into Windows, and the slight annoyance of having to either keep a remote desktop tool open or a laptop nearby if I wanted to do something else on the computer other than launch a game. And since my gaming computer is custom built, there's also a non-trivial expense of purchasing a Windows license. The one compromise I have considered is keeping a dedicated Windows gaming PC in a closet and using Steam Link so I can actually play the games on my preferred device, whether it's at my desk or on the TV. It doesn't solve everything I mentioned above but at least it gets closer to the set-it-and-forget-it approach you've taken.
- xcrunner529 3y ago
  What OS doesn’t have this problem? Linux and Mac have both had major changes and move things around. Mac completely redid System Preferences to Settings and Linux changes frequently and even by distribution.
  - anticorporate 3y ago
    I never claimed any other OS was any different in that people who are particular will need to configure them, I'm just pointing out that as someone who never uses Windows for anything else except gaming, the cost of fixing the annoyances instead of using Wine for playing games is higher than 15 minutes. That said, I'm generally more comfortable adapting to whatever random version of a window manager and desktop a Linux distribution ships with than putting up with the "everything is AI now!" "now with more ads!" "find things only via search!" type things that show up in the Windows UX.
  - aldanor 3y ago
    macOS changed the visual looks of preferences and rearranged things, but if you had a bash script that just did a bunch of "defaults write", it would still work for the most part.

al_hag 3y ago

Absent considerations about identities being stored by third parties, what is the downside of targeted ads? I found myself wishing for more targeted ads after listening to yet another random fast food ad the other day.

ActionHank 3y ago
Because there shouldn’t be ads on my desktop. It’s become so normalized that people have been brainbroken into thinking it is fine.
lend000 3y ago
IMO the problem is not that ads are better targeted, but the fact that they exist at all on the OS (let alone an OS I paid money for). Microsoft is truly cancer.
ParetoOptimal 3y ago
You are assuming ads as a default. Assume no ads as a default, then ask "What is the downside of targeted ads versus no ads".
andsmedeiros 3y ago
The downside of targeted ads, besides the targeted thing, is the ads thing.
thefurdrake 3y ago
The fact that the targeting part is the output of a multibillion-dollar industry focused on scientific experimentation on humans without informed consent. Also the fact that they're ads. That's a problem, too. Basically the whole thing is one big downside for everyone who isn't in adtech or trying to sell you shit you otherwise wouldn't buy.

csouzaf 3y ago

Probably worth to take a look https://atlasos.net/ https://atlasos.net/

notso411 3y ago
All that website says is some vague description about what it is without saying what it is and a downloadable and download counter. Awful website.
- eric-hu 3y ago
  Sounds like a gaming and privacy focused modification of windows based on my read of the FAQ https://docs.atlasos.net/faq-and-troubleshooting/removed-features/ https://docs.atlasos.net/faq-and-troubleshooting/removed-fea...
- xcv123 3y ago
  "A modification of Windows, designed for gamers." "Performance: By Removing unnecessary components, disabling power-saving features, and optimizing services." "Privacy: By eliminating Microsoft's notorious tracking, pre-installed apps, and bloatware, you can feel confident when using Atlas." Github link https://github.com/atlas-os/atlas https://github.com/atlas-os/atlas I use this on my gaming PC. Works well for me.
eric-hu 3y ago
Do you run this? I’m curious what your experience (and others) are with it. I have a Pop!OS box and it was a little work to set up. I was mostly pleased with the result, though. Steam experimental Proton had a wide range of my games library compared to regular Proton. I did run into major bugs running some of those games, but it was good for scratching a nostalgia itch.
ActionHank 3y ago
Thank you, I will take a look at this if I ever need to go back.

nick_ 3y ago

Linux is not even close to matching Windows in gaming performance. Maybe for a small sub-set of games, but for the vast majority you're running them on Win32 and DX compatibility layers that each have overhead. Sometimes a lot.

ramesh31 3y ago
>Maybe for a small sub-set of games, but for the vast majority you're running them on Win32 and DX compatibility layers that each have overhead. Sometimes a lot. It really doesn't matter. You're talking theoretical benchmarks, when in reality the only thing that matters to someone playing is 60fps@4k. For a compatible game, any Linux machine is equally capable of acheiving that through Proton with a sufficient GPU. Particularly for Nvidia, where the linux drivers are equally as good or better than Windows at this point.
Propelloni 3y ago
You know, I wouldn't have objected if you had said something like "Linux does not match Windows in gaming perfomance" but you had to go to hyperbole and say "not even close" and that's just not true. Linux is astoundingly close to MS Windows if you consider that most games are not written for the Linux platform, but for MS Windows. That alone should give one pause for thought. Add "treating its users with respect" to the mix and Linux seems to be the better choice. It sure is good enough for me.
aomix 3y ago
The DX layer is interesting. Dxvk ranges from slightly slower to much, much faster. Older games are an unambiguous win and modern games seem to be a toss up. There’s a large user base for it on windows to get all the performance you can out of older PCs.
ActionHank 3y ago
SteamDeck has entered the chat. Low power device with low end specs, absolutely crushing games with those pesky compatibility layers. I play all my games on my PC, they work flawlessly save for 2 exceptions. Diablo 4 Beta took some tinkering, but I got it going after 20mins. Fortnite won't run because their anticheat isn't compatible, because Epic don't want it to be.

zeagle 3y ago

Strong disagree and this is from someone that used to use FreeBSD and now dual boots Fedora for my laptop and runs Debian for servers. I mean it took me more than 15 minutes to figure out how to get a fresh nobara 38 install to simply boot last time I tried this. For the sin of having an Nvidia 3070 graphics card I had to look up to where to change some settings in grub to boot to be able install the drivers and boot properly. My fedora running framework laptop can't detect one of the external monitors in my lenovo usb c dock if it is plugged in when it boots or after sleep. No lay person consumer is going to waste their time diagnosing this stuff.

SR2Z 3y ago
So don't use Fedora - use a distro that actually has a large, user-focused team working on it. Pop_OS COMES with NVIDIA drivers. You can't pick an enthusiast distro and then complain when you have to be... well, an _enthusiast_.
- zeagle 3y ago
  I appreciate that. I did try ubuntu, pop, and fedora beforehand and had the same issue. I didn't want to make my original comment too long or to appear incidinary. It just didn't boot and my research led me to nobara. If you have any thoughts why it wouldn't work with a i7-10700k, rog b560-a, a 3070, 4k monitor via hdmi or dp, and a dual booting m2 ssd would be curious.
ActionHank 3y ago
Nvidia drivers are a bit iffy sometimes, I will give you that. That said most major distros have builtin support and Arch has great docs for getting things going too.
- zeagle 3y ago
  Unfortunate. Although it inspires me to try again this weeekend with the latest Pop!OS.
  - 3y ago

thefz 3y ago

> I've been on Arch for 2 years now after seeing the cancer that is Windows 11. Ads and "news" on your desktop, garbage free to play games preinstalled or linked to. Region dependent. Thanks to GDPR, you don't see any of this if you pick an EU region or "World" when installing Windows. > It used to be that Windows was reasonably solid with good performance for dev and gaming. Now Linux is far superior in both aspects. Non native games run well in Linux nowaday, but will always run better without Vulkan or any translation layer.