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Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. > Birds of prey in Africa experiencing population collapse,

Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. > Birds of prey in Africa experiencing population collapse, study finds > new research used road surveys to find that nearly 90% of the 42 raptor species studied had experienced declines, with more than two-thirds showing evidence of being globally threatened. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/04/birds-of-prey-in-africa-experiencing-population-collapse-study-finds-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/04/birds-of...

arcticbull 3y ago
> Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. If the people involved in this conversation actually cared about birds, they wouldn't be worried about either. They'd be worried about cats. Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone. [1] And an order of magnitude more small mammals (6.3B - 22.3B). It's several orders of magnitude more than turbines and oil-and-gas drilling combined. Studies put the number of birds killed by wind turbines in the US at 140K-690K. That's 0.0035% to 0.05% of the birds killed by cats. It would literally be a rounding error nobody would ever notice if all the wind turbines came down. I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation in the context of wind power. Put some UV stickers or black paint on them and move on. [3] [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 [2] https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/20/bird-population-decrease-third-fewer/ https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/20/bird-population-decrea... [3] https://group.vattenfall.com/press-and-media/newsroom/2022/black-turbine-blades-reduce-bird-collisions https://group.vattenfall.com/press-and-media/newsroom/2022/b...
- 725686 3y ago
  I don't know shit, but I'm pretty sure the kind of birds cats kill are very different from the kind of birds that get killed in wind turbines, i.e. eagles
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Not having any birds or small mammals to eat because the cats killed all of them is going to do a number on them too. Despite their ability to win a physical confrontation.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  You've convinced me: we should replace all cats in the US with wind turbines.
  - vixen99 3y ago
    And wind turbine manufacturers would agree: UK December wind generation: Generation: 2.6 TWh Subsidy/MWh : £86.68 Market Price/MWh: £75.00
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      I'd personally rather a single nuclear power plant replace all the capacity, but honestly, as far as birds go, it'd be a no-op.
      - kroltan 3y ago
        Yes, but that would be tempting the gods of irony with the possibility of a nuclear CATastrophe.
      - saalweachter 3y ago
        It looks like cats in the US only produce about 560 megawatts of heat, so you could probably do it with a single nuclear plant.
    - laurencerowe 3y ago
      Where are these figures from? Older projects were subsidised much more but around half the current wind capacity has been built from 2016 with far less subsidy.
  - hotsauceror 3y ago
    I find your ideas intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  > "Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone." Humans eat 8 Billion chickens per year in the US alone: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22287530/chicken-beef-factory-farming-plant-based-meats https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22287530/chicken-beef-fac... Some 15 MegaKilos of chicken: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/chicken-consumption-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/chicken-c...
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    The difference is that cats don't tend to have systems in place to ensure the food supply without eradicating the species.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Those are domestic chickens. Cats kill wild birds. Does that make sense?
- anthomtb 3y ago
  My indoor cats haven't killed any birds in their lives. My windows, on the other hand, take out a few every year. Really though, I know the term "bird brain" exists in my North American lexicon but birds aren't THAT dumb. They can fly around large, opaque, moving objects with a rather high degree of accuracy.

arcticbull 3y ago

> Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. If the people involved in this conversation actually cared about birds, they wouldn't be worried about either. They'd be worried about cats. Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone. [1] And an order of magnitude more small mammals (6.3B - 22.3B). It's several orders of magnitude more than turbines and oil-and-gas drilling combined. Studies put the number of birds killed by wind turbines in the US at 140K-690K. That's 0.0035% to 0.05% of the birds killed by cats. It would literally be a rounding error nobody would ever notice if all the wind turbines came down. I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation in the context of wind power. Put some UV stickers or black paint on them and move on. [3] [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 [2] https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/20/bird-population-decrease-third-fewer/ https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/20/bird-population-decrea... [3] https://group.vattenfall.com/press-and-media/newsroom/2022/black-turbine-blades-reduce-bird-collisions https://group.vattenfall.com/press-and-media/newsroom/2022/b...

725686 3y ago
I don't know shit, but I'm pretty sure the kind of birds cats kill are very different from the kind of birds that get killed in wind turbines, i.e. eagles
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Not having any birds or small mammals to eat because the cats killed all of them is going to do a number on them too. Despite their ability to win a physical confrontation.
saalweachter 3y ago
You've convinced me: we should replace all cats in the US with wind turbines.
- vixen99 3y ago
  And wind turbine manufacturers would agree: UK December wind generation: Generation: 2.6 TWh Subsidy/MWh : £86.68 Market Price/MWh: £75.00
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    I'd personally rather a single nuclear power plant replace all the capacity, but honestly, as far as birds go, it'd be a no-op.
    - kroltan 3y ago
      Yes, but that would be tempting the gods of irony with the possibility of a nuclear CATastrophe.
    - saalweachter 3y ago
      It looks like cats in the US only produce about 560 megawatts of heat, so you could probably do it with a single nuclear plant.
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    Where are these figures from? Older projects were subsidised much more but around half the current wind capacity has been built from 2016 with far less subsidy.
- hotsauceror 3y ago
  I find your ideas intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
jodrellblank 3y ago
> "Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone." Humans eat 8 Billion chickens per year in the US alone: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22287530/chicken-beef-factory-farming-plant-based-meats https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22287530/chicken-beef-fac... Some 15 MegaKilos of chicken: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/chicken-consumption-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/chicken-c...
- alpaca128 3y ago
  The difference is that cats don't tend to have systems in place to ensure the food supply without eradicating the species.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Those are domestic chickens. Cats kill wild birds. Does that make sense?
anthomtb 3y ago
My indoor cats haven't killed any birds in their lives. My windows, on the other hand, take out a few every year. Really though, I know the term "bird brain" exists in my North American lexicon but birds aren't THAT dumb. They can fly around large, opaque, moving objects with a rather high degree of accuracy.