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Thanks for the link. Not sure what was the point of her arguing though. Just for the Tik Tok video? It's not like you will argument yourself out of being term

Thanks for the link. Not sure what was the point of her arguing though. Just for the Tik Tok video? It's not like you will argument yourself out of being terminated. I also find her argument forced. "Just because I haven't closed anything, it doesn't mean my performance hasn't been good", that's nonsense, it's sales, performance is valued on sales. Not closing a single sale in 5 months does not qualify as good performance, and you don't need 1v1s with your manager to find this.

V-eHGsd_ 3y ago
from the video, I got the impression that cloudflare has a pretty standard 3 month ramp up period which, for her, ended right about thanksgiving. so it's not 5 months with no sales, it's a little over a month. and that month has two (three) major holidays that knock out ~2 weeks. so 5 months is suddenly more like ~3 weeks. and, if every 1:1 with a manager has been glowing and then you get fired 'for performance', there's been a massive failure somewhere.
- diggan 3y ago
  Not to mention that the last few weeks of any year is famously slow when it comes to most things, including sales and purchasing decisions.
- klipklop 3y ago
  Agreed. Nobody is closing deals near the end of the year. Also it takes time as a sales person to worm your way into a company to sell them on a product. This takes good leads to follow up on. No idea if the sales agent even had that. Were there even any so close to the holidays? Sales can be hard because you have to build relationships with companies/people. If you compare a green sales agent against an entrenched veteran they will always look bad. The veteran sales person has contacts, revolving sales from existing companies and people they can hit up to drive new sales. The newb has none of that. The amount of time she was employed was not enough to determine that.
- itake 3y ago
  I'm curious why she knew to record this video if she thought she was performing well.
  - V-eHGsd_ 3y ago
    the first 30 seconds of the video says > my coworkers have been getting random 15-min cal invites all day > my work bff got a meeting 30 mins before I did and she got laid off
- John23832 3y ago
  Nobody is even around in Nov/Dec to approve any sales. Sales don't pick up until mid Jan.
justinclift 3y ago
> ... you don't need 1v1s with your manager to find this. While that's true, it does sound like her direct manager was outright misleading her. Telling someone they're doing well when they're very much not (to the point their job is at risk) isn't constructive, and doesn't help anyone. Well, not unless the manager was purposely sabotaging the employee for some reason. It's more likely the manager is just an idiot though, and tells everyone they're doing great regardless of the reality. Seen that before :( though I have no idea if that's the case here.
- epolanski 3y ago
  Okay, but we're also taking her account on that at straight value. I've had multiple coworkers or subordinates living in their own world and not understanding crystal clear feedback.
  - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
    It's easy to believe a manager didn't give criticism because it makes their job easier until the time they have to rip the bandaid off, then they can wash their hands of the issue.
  - windows98devops 3y ago
    Her account can be taken at straight value only because this company failed the firing so badly. This should be able to be easily answered. E.g. "Your performance review on November 17th we discussed concern that you weren't closing any sales." "Your peers close 20 tickets per week, you close 12." "You made mistakes on X, Y, and Z deals costing us clients." "A sales associate normally closes 3 deals in the first month after their 3-month onboarding." Basically, anything concrete at all. Either tell someone they're laid off (cost savings) or if you're going to cite a cause then you should back that cause up. You can't claim at-will-employement-fired-for-no-reason when you half-ass it and state a reason with no data or facts or any management chain present to speak to the reality of the situation.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Yeah, that's a good point. That could be the situation as well. :)
jlat123 3y ago
You obviously have no clue as to the point of her video or the companies response. They could not give her an exact reason for the termination, which every employee deserves. Even the CEO admits what a crappy job they did, but all you got out of it was she was trying to argue out of being terminated. I think you should apply for a job at the company as you are great management matterall for this company...

V-eHGsd_ 3y ago

from the video, I got the impression that cloudflare has a pretty standard 3 month ramp up period which, for her, ended right about thanksgiving. so it's not 5 months with no sales, it's a little over a month. and that month has two (three) major holidays that knock out ~2 weeks. so 5 months is suddenly more like ~3 weeks. and, if every 1:1 with a manager has been glowing and then you get fired 'for performance', there's been a massive failure somewhere.

diggan 3y ago
Not to mention that the last few weeks of any year is famously slow when it comes to most things, including sales and purchasing decisions.
klipklop 3y ago
Agreed. Nobody is closing deals near the end of the year. Also it takes time as a sales person to worm your way into a company to sell them on a product. This takes good leads to follow up on. No idea if the sales agent even had that. Were there even any so close to the holidays? Sales can be hard because you have to build relationships with companies/people. If you compare a green sales agent against an entrenched veteran they will always look bad. The veteran sales person has contacts, revolving sales from existing companies and people they can hit up to drive new sales. The newb has none of that. The amount of time she was employed was not enough to determine that.
itake 3y ago
I'm curious why she knew to record this video if she thought she was performing well.
- V-eHGsd_ 3y ago
  the first 30 seconds of the video says > my coworkers have been getting random 15-min cal invites all day > my work bff got a meeting 30 mins before I did and she got laid off
John23832 3y ago
Nobody is even around in Nov/Dec to approve any sales. Sales don't pick up until mid Jan.

justinclift 3y ago

> ... you don't need 1v1s with your manager to find this. While that's true, it does sound like her direct manager was outright misleading her. Telling someone they're doing well when they're very much not (to the point their job is at risk) isn't constructive, and doesn't help anyone. Well, not unless the manager was purposely sabotaging the employee for some reason. It's more likely the manager is just an idiot though, and tells everyone they're doing great regardless of the reality. Seen that before :( though I have no idea if that's the case here.

epolanski 3y ago
Okay, but we're also taking her account on that at straight value. I've had multiple coworkers or subordinates living in their own world and not understanding crystal clear feedback.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  It's easy to believe a manager didn't give criticism because it makes their job easier until the time they have to rip the bandaid off, then they can wash their hands of the issue.
- windows98devops 3y ago
  Her account can be taken at straight value only because this company failed the firing so badly. This should be able to be easily answered. E.g. "Your performance review on November 17th we discussed concern that you weren't closing any sales." "Your peers close 20 tickets per week, you close 12." "You made mistakes on X, Y, and Z deals costing us clients." "A sales associate normally closes 3 deals in the first month after their 3-month onboarding." Basically, anything concrete at all. Either tell someone they're laid off (cost savings) or if you're going to cite a cause then you should back that cause up. You can't claim at-will-employement-fired-for-no-reason when you half-ass it and state a reason with no data or facts or any management chain present to speak to the reality of the situation.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Yeah, that's a good point. That could be the situation as well. :)

jlat123 3y ago

You obviously have no clue as to the point of her video or the companies response. They could not give her an exact reason for the termination, which every employee deserves. Even the CEO admits what a crappy job they did, but all you got out of it was she was trying to argue out of being terminated. I think you should apply for a job at the company as you are great management matterall for this company...