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I worked at JPM in investment banking. At least on the IBank side, it was an incredibly well run company. I’m not gonna say there’s no bureaucracy there, but fo

I worked at JPM in investment banking. At least on the IBank side, it was an incredibly well run company. I’m not gonna say there’s no bureaucracy there, but for a company with 200k+ employees it ran very efficiently. And they have always been relatively conservative, not taking on the riskiest bets that some of their peers did, which puts them into a very strong position to take advantage of downturns.

steveBK123 3y ago
Yes they are incredibly conservative. They generally don't pay terribly well for non-revenue generating roles, for a broad definition of "non-revenue generating". I have had rounds of interviews with them over the years where they put me through a bunch of rounds, feel me out, and realize that actually.. they can't really afford me. I know people who take a job there and JPM nickel & dimes you on the way in, lies about target bonus not being prorated first year, and then also gives 0 raise first year. Cute stuff like "forgetting" to pay starting bonuses for months, etc. I've heard YoY raises that are some of the worst in the industry. To the point that leaving for a competitor is an easy 50%-100% increase in TC because of 5-10 years of surpassed raises. Another example, in 2020 when COVID hit they did some wide ranging bonus cuts to offset increases in loan reserves for expected credit losses during the pandemic. As all the stimulus kicked in and the economy started to rip, the credit losses didn't come to pass, so they subsequently paid out a fraction of the money they withheld earlier. Those pennies add up for JPM.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Halve/quarter your downsides, double your upsides, and you get a more accurate reflection for the Consumer/Small Business side of the house. IB/Commercial have a higher starting point but I am not familiar with the dynamics there. IT/Corporate is on par with Consumer/Small Business. That said, perceived poor performers really don't get paid well or get bonuses, and that's usually the only clear signal you get.
- decafninja 3y ago
  I haven't worked at JPM, but I have at a few of its competitors. As a technology professional, I think what you describe is par for course at all the banks, and more broadly speaking, pretty much all "non tech" companies in general where tech is considered an unrespected cost center. Tech compensation is bimodal. You have the top FAANG tier and maybe some companies one tier down where software engineers can make as much or more than medical doctors. Then you have a sharp drop off a cliff consisting of everyone else - where a senior or staff SWE equivalent with decades of experience can expect to retire in their 60s making about as much as a upper junior FAANG engineer. I was shocked last year when I heard my intern with zero years of experience got his offer...for about double my compensation at my last bank SWE job.
synergy20 3y ago
why chase still does 0% for saving and checking,which forces me to transfer most of my money to fidelity
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  You could also just buy VUSXX (or similar) through chase.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  So that Chase can earn more money from the 80% of people who can’t be bothered or have insignificant funds to move around.
John23832 3y ago
Oh I wasn't talking down about JPM. I actually worked there for a few in the Private Banking space (as a Software Engineer). Great bank, but they also have has the wind at their back in certain situations (being gifted First Republic in the latest regional banking crisis. FR just had a liquidity crisis. Functionally it was fine. JPM got a steal). Citi on the other hand hasn't had those options/gifts... largely because of prior mismanagement. I think they're only up 10% in the last 10 years or something crazy like that.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Citi has been the gang who can't shoot straight since the 80s.

steveBK123 3y ago

Yes they are incredibly conservative. They generally don't pay terribly well for non-revenue generating roles, for a broad definition of "non-revenue generating". I have had rounds of interviews with them over the years where they put me through a bunch of rounds, feel me out, and realize that actually.. they can't really afford me. I know people who take a job there and JPM nickel & dimes you on the way in, lies about target bonus not being prorated first year, and then also gives 0 raise first year. Cute stuff like "forgetting" to pay starting bonuses for months, etc. I've heard YoY raises that are some of the worst in the industry. To the point that leaving for a competitor is an easy 50%-100% increase in TC because of 5-10 years of surpassed raises. Another example, in 2020 when COVID hit they did some wide ranging bonus cuts to offset increases in loan reserves for expected credit losses during the pandemic. As all the stimulus kicked in and the economy started to rip, the credit losses didn't come to pass, so they subsequently paid out a fraction of the money they withheld earlier. Those pennies add up for JPM.

tomrod 3y ago
Halve/quarter your downsides, double your upsides, and you get a more accurate reflection for the Consumer/Small Business side of the house. IB/Commercial have a higher starting point but I am not familiar with the dynamics there. IT/Corporate is on par with Consumer/Small Business. That said, perceived poor performers really don't get paid well or get bonuses, and that's usually the only clear signal you get.
decafninja 3y ago
I haven't worked at JPM, but I have at a few of its competitors. As a technology professional, I think what you describe is par for course at all the banks, and more broadly speaking, pretty much all "non tech" companies in general where tech is considered an unrespected cost center. Tech compensation is bimodal. You have the top FAANG tier and maybe some companies one tier down where software engineers can make as much or more than medical doctors. Then you have a sharp drop off a cliff consisting of everyone else - where a senior or staff SWE equivalent with decades of experience can expect to retire in their 60s making about as much as a upper junior FAANG engineer. I was shocked last year when I heard my intern with zero years of experience got his offer...for about double my compensation at my last bank SWE job.

synergy20 3y ago

why chase still does 0% for saving and checking,which forces me to transfer most of my money to fidelity

mupuff1234 3y ago
You could also just buy VUSXX (or similar) through chase.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
So that Chase can earn more money from the 80% of people who can’t be bothered or have insignificant funds to move around.

John23832 3y ago

Oh I wasn't talking down about JPM. I actually worked there for a few in the Private Banking space (as a Software Engineer). Great bank, but they also have has the wind at their back in certain situations (being gifted First Republic in the latest regional banking crisis. FR just had a liquidity crisis. Functionally it was fine. JPM got a steal). Citi on the other hand hasn't had those options/gifts... largely because of prior mismanagement. I think they're only up 10% in the last 10 years or something crazy like that.

steveBK123 3y ago
Citi has been the gang who can't shoot straight since the 80s.