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Even with 947 branches I don't understand how you wind up with 200k employees. Assume every single branch is staffed by no fewer than 20 people. That gets you

Even with 947 branches I don't understand how you wind up with 200k employees. Assume every single branch is staffed by no fewer than 20 people. That gets you to ~20k employees to run all brick & mortar retail ops. What the hell are the other 180k employees doing? That's still more than all of Google today.

gpderetta 3y ago
Customer facing positions are only a tiny part of what a large bank does.
- idkyall 3y ago
  Plus customer facing employees aren't just the people in the branches, there's a massive volume of phone/email/etc support any large credit card issuer receives on a daily basis.
- kjs3 3y ago
  And a shrinking part. OTOH...we have a few tens of thousands of people just in the customer support call centers.
kredd 3y ago
Legal, compliance, customer service, investment banking, engineering, sales, marketing, IT, risk management. When it comes to large clients, you probably have multiple people just working on specific cases only. It balloons up when you multiply you by different locations and regulations.
Irishsteve 3y ago
Citi used (And maybe still are not sure) to be the biggest retail bank in the world. I'm not sure how exactly that was quantified but I'd assume its related too phsyical footprint. If thats the case I could see mid and back office functions ballooning
- TuringNYC 3y ago
  As a retail and business customer of both Citi and Chase, there is no comparison. It would be illogical to use Citi given how great Chase's service is. While there are probably many factors, you cant be that comparatively bad for a competitive and fungible service -- and expect no business consequences.
  - uuddlrlrbas 3y ago
    Chases service is fine but their savings interest rates are laughable. At least Citi's is 4.35% right now vs 0.01% for Chase.
    - TuringNYC 3y ago
      When comparing banks, I am comparing the banking service and not the rates. The recommended practice would be to keep just as much as you need in your checking/emergency accounts for month to month usage -- and have the rest of your funds in an independent investment/savings account, probably with a different institution. Ideally you time your auto-investments so the money gets invested as soon as it lands in your account via paychecks, etc. Theoretically, lets say you keep 5k buffer in your checking account. The amount goes up and down as you get paychecks, pay out your rent, credit card bills, etc. That average 5k balance at 5% interest gets you $250 annually, or about $21/mo in interest. You'll give away 30% of that to taxes, so the "opportunity cost" of your checking account is ~$14/mo. A serious question for any busy professional (as many of us are here) -- is chasing after this $14/mo worth the cost of a substandard checking account and bank service? My experience is that good banking service pays for itsself. I'll give examples: - One inexplicable fee from a bad bank will wipe out your monthly monthly interest - If you have to wait on hold for 1hr to fix it, you've already lost way more - If you have to pay fees left and right for things like certified checks, again you have lost the interest - If you have fraud on your account and spend >2hrs dealing with it because the bank is unwilling to help or sends you to some offshore call center, again you lose. - Suddenly need a statement from a year ago? Some banks will charge for that. HSBC (last I used) neither returns your checks nor shows images of your checks, so you have no record of checks unless you keep them. A great bank has all sorts of fringe benefits. Mine will even do notary service for free. Mine will give near spot FX rates on overseas ATM withdrawls. For US customers I would wholeheartedly recommend Chase, no need to be penny-wise pound foolish.
denimnerd42 3y ago
I work at a similar bank. We have ~100 employees dedicated to mainly one regulator. There are hundreds of regulators worldwide. Of course there is some overlap in functions so its not 100s*100 but... running a bank is a hard business.
- GreedClarifies 3y ago
  Banking in the modern age is a compliance business. It is strange and horrible that it is become like that, but that's where we are. More sectors than one would think are primarily compliance businesses.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > It is strange and horrible that it is become like that, but that's where we are. Given that in very recent times we got to experience what happens when people handling money completely ignore regulations, I'm quite happy banks are "compliance businesses". Banks should be boring businesses focused on taking deposits, making loans and other variations of that sort of capital allocation. Whenever a bank talks about "new financial innovations!", run for the hills because it's invariably a way to separate customers from more of their money.
  - octobus2021 3y ago
    When bank is about to go under due to some new esoteric product which _should_ work (like packaging risky debt into magically risk-free securities) but eventually doesn't, it is MY money that's going to be used to pay for the losses. Because the bankruptcy would be a "systemic risk to the economy". So you bet I want banks to be constantly audited to make sure they don't make any dumb bets which I will have to cover for.

gpderetta 3y ago

Customer facing positions are only a tiny part of what a large bank does.

idkyall 3y ago
Plus customer facing employees aren't just the people in the branches, there's a massive volume of phone/email/etc support any large credit card issuer receives on a daily basis.
kjs3 3y ago
And a shrinking part. OTOH...we have a few tens of thousands of people just in the customer support call centers.

kredd 3y ago

Legal, compliance, customer service, investment banking, engineering, sales, marketing, IT, risk management. When it comes to large clients, you probably have multiple people just working on specific cases only. It balloons up when you multiply you by different locations and regulations.

Irishsteve 3y ago

Citi used (And maybe still are not sure) to be the biggest retail bank in the world. I'm not sure how exactly that was quantified but I'd assume its related too phsyical footprint. If thats the case I could see mid and back office functions ballooning

TuringNYC 3y ago
As a retail and business customer of both Citi and Chase, there is no comparison. It would be illogical to use Citi given how great Chase's service is. While there are probably many factors, you cant be that comparatively bad for a competitive and fungible service -- and expect no business consequences.
- uuddlrlrbas 3y ago
  Chases service is fine but their savings interest rates are laughable. At least Citi's is 4.35% right now vs 0.01% for Chase.
  - TuringNYC 3y ago
    When comparing banks, I am comparing the banking service and not the rates. The recommended practice would be to keep just as much as you need in your checking/emergency accounts for month to month usage -- and have the rest of your funds in an independent investment/savings account, probably with a different institution. Ideally you time your auto-investments so the money gets invested as soon as it lands in your account via paychecks, etc. Theoretically, lets say you keep 5k buffer in your checking account. The amount goes up and down as you get paychecks, pay out your rent, credit card bills, etc. That average 5k balance at 5% interest gets you $250 annually, or about $21/mo in interest. You'll give away 30% of that to taxes, so the "opportunity cost" of your checking account is ~$14/mo. A serious question for any busy professional (as many of us are here) -- is chasing after this $14/mo worth the cost of a substandard checking account and bank service? My experience is that good banking service pays for itsself. I'll give examples: - One inexplicable fee from a bad bank will wipe out your monthly monthly interest - If you have to wait on hold for 1hr to fix it, you've already lost way more - If you have to pay fees left and right for things like certified checks, again you have lost the interest - If you have fraud on your account and spend >2hrs dealing with it because the bank is unwilling to help or sends you to some offshore call center, again you lose. - Suddenly need a statement from a year ago? Some banks will charge for that. HSBC (last I used) neither returns your checks nor shows images of your checks, so you have no record of checks unless you keep them. A great bank has all sorts of fringe benefits. Mine will even do notary service for free. Mine will give near spot FX rates on overseas ATM withdrawls. For US customers I would wholeheartedly recommend Chase, no need to be penny-wise pound foolish.

denimnerd42 3y ago

I work at a similar bank. We have ~100 employees dedicated to mainly one regulator. There are hundreds of regulators worldwide. Of course there is some overlap in functions so its not 100s*100 but... running a bank is a hard business.

GreedClarifies 3y ago
Banking in the modern age is a compliance business. It is strange and horrible that it is become like that, but that's where we are. More sectors than one would think are primarily compliance businesses.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > It is strange and horrible that it is become like that, but that's where we are. Given that in very recent times we got to experience what happens when people handling money completely ignore regulations, I'm quite happy banks are "compliance businesses". Banks should be boring businesses focused on taking deposits, making loans and other variations of that sort of capital allocation. Whenever a bank talks about "new financial innovations!", run for the hills because it's invariably a way to separate customers from more of their money.
- octobus2021 3y ago
  When bank is about to go under due to some new esoteric product which _should_ work (like packaging risky debt into magically risk-free securities) but eventually doesn't, it is MY money that's going to be used to pay for the losses. Because the bankruptcy would be a "systemic risk to the economy". So you bet I want banks to be constantly audited to make sure they don't make any dumb bets which I will have to cover for.