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In America. The gap between JPM and Citi is incredible. Part of JPM's success is that it has basically been deemed "America's Bank" by the government, but the

In America. The gap between JPM and Citi is incredible. Part of JPM's success is that it has basically been deemed "America's Bank" by the government, but the mismanagement at Citi is tangible too.

steveBK123 3y ago
JPM got to be deemed "America's Bank" by being ruthlessly efficient and very conservative re: risk. C & BAC are complete basket cases by comparison. Great brand, but I'd never work there...
dtnewman 3y ago
I worked at JPM in investment banking. At least on the IBank side, it was an incredibly well run company. I’m not gonna say there’s no bureaucracy there, but for a company with 200k+ employees it ran very efficiently. And they have always been relatively conservative, not taking on the riskiest bets that some of their peers did, which puts them into a very strong position to take advantage of downturns.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Yes they are incredibly conservative. They generally don't pay terribly well for non-revenue generating roles, for a broad definition of "non-revenue generating". I have had rounds of interviews with them over the years where they put me through a bunch of rounds, feel me out, and realize that actually.. they can't really afford me. I know people who take a job there and JPM nickel & dimes you on the way in, lies about target bonus not being prorated first year, and then also gives 0 raise first year. Cute stuff like "forgetting" to pay starting bonuses for months, etc. I've heard YoY raises that are some of the worst in the industry. To the point that leaving for a competitor is an easy 50%-100% increase in TC because of 5-10 years of surpassed raises. Another example, in 2020 when COVID hit they did some wide ranging bonus cuts to offset increases in loan reserves for expected credit losses during the pandemic. As all the stimulus kicked in and the economy started to rip, the credit losses didn't come to pass, so they subsequently paid out a fraction of the money they withheld earlier. Those pennies add up for JPM.
  - tomrod 3y ago
    Halve/quarter your downsides, double your upsides, and you get a more accurate reflection for the Consumer/Small Business side of the house. IB/Commercial have a higher starting point but I am not familiar with the dynamics there. IT/Corporate is on par with Consumer/Small Business. That said, perceived poor performers really don't get paid well or get bonuses, and that's usually the only clear signal you get.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    I haven't worked at JPM, but I have at a few of its competitors. As a technology professional, I think what you describe is par for course at all the banks, and more broadly speaking, pretty much all "non tech" companies in general where tech is considered an unrespected cost center. Tech compensation is bimodal. You have the top FAANG tier and maybe some companies one tier down where software engineers can make as much or more than medical doctors. Then you have a sharp drop off a cliff consisting of everyone else - where a senior or staff SWE equivalent with decades of experience can expect to retire in their 60s making about as much as a upper junior FAANG engineer. I was shocked last year when I heard my intern with zero years of experience got his offer...for about double my compensation at my last bank SWE job.
- synergy20 3y ago
  why chase still does 0% for saving and checking,which forces me to transfer most of my money to fidelity
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    You could also just buy VUSXX (or similar) through chase.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    So that Chase can earn more money from the 80% of people who can’t be bothered or have insignificant funds to move around.
- John23832 3y ago
  Oh I wasn't talking down about JPM. I actually worked there for a few in the Private Banking space (as a Software Engineer). Great bank, but they also have has the wind at their back in certain situations (being gifted First Republic in the latest regional banking crisis. FR just had a liquidity crisis. Functionally it was fine. JPM got a steal). Citi on the other hand hasn't had those options/gifts... largely because of prior mismanagement. I think they're only up 10% in the last 10 years or something crazy like that.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Citi has been the gang who can't shoot straight since the 80s.
bsdpufferfish 3y ago
In 2008 banks made behind closed doors deals with the government and some won and some were not invited (Lehman brothers, etc). We are still seeing the effects of that.
nickjj 3y ago
I never had an account anywhere else but Chase (run through JPM) is pretty good, independent of branding. I have no affiliation with them but at the branch I goto there's always a free ATM inside for quick things, they make it easy to schedule meetings for more complex tasks and the bankers who have their own cubicle tend to be knowledgeable (I've encountered a couple of them over the years). It's super easy to reach them too, and this is with a basic checking account only. Their checking account is free with no penalties as long as you direct deposit $500 / month OR keep $1,500 in there, for most folks on this site the first option means you only need to keep the bare minimum in there to pay your bills. I don't care about the lack of interest. Most trading platforms will give you 4%+ which IMO has a nice advantage in that you can stick idle cash in there (untraded) and collect risk free interest and you can quickly transfer it back to your bank account if you need it. It's a reasonable solution for an emergency fund, but it also doubles as a way to instantly put money into the market if an opportunity strikes.

In America. The gap between JPM and Citi is incredible. Part of JPM's success is that it has basically been deemed "America's Bank" by the government, but the mismanagement at Citi is tangible too.

steveBK123 3y ago

JPM got to be deemed "America's Bank" by being ruthlessly efficient and very conservative re: risk. C & BAC are complete basket cases by comparison. Great brand, but I'd never work there...

dtnewman 3y ago

I worked at JPM in investment banking. At least on the IBank side, it was an incredibly well run company. I’m not gonna say there’s no bureaucracy there, but for a company with 200k+ employees it ran very efficiently. And they have always been relatively conservative, not taking on the riskiest bets that some of their peers did, which puts them into a very strong position to take advantage of downturns.

steveBK123 3y ago
Yes they are incredibly conservative. They generally don't pay terribly well for non-revenue generating roles, for a broad definition of "non-revenue generating". I have had rounds of interviews with them over the years where they put me through a bunch of rounds, feel me out, and realize that actually.. they can't really afford me. I know people who take a job there and JPM nickel & dimes you on the way in, lies about target bonus not being prorated first year, and then also gives 0 raise first year. Cute stuff like "forgetting" to pay starting bonuses for months, etc. I've heard YoY raises that are some of the worst in the industry. To the point that leaving for a competitor is an easy 50%-100% increase in TC because of 5-10 years of surpassed raises. Another example, in 2020 when COVID hit they did some wide ranging bonus cuts to offset increases in loan reserves for expected credit losses during the pandemic. As all the stimulus kicked in and the economy started to rip, the credit losses didn't come to pass, so they subsequently paid out a fraction of the money they withheld earlier. Those pennies add up for JPM.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Halve/quarter your downsides, double your upsides, and you get a more accurate reflection for the Consumer/Small Business side of the house. IB/Commercial have a higher starting point but I am not familiar with the dynamics there. IT/Corporate is on par with Consumer/Small Business. That said, perceived poor performers really don't get paid well or get bonuses, and that's usually the only clear signal you get.
- decafninja 3y ago
  I haven't worked at JPM, but I have at a few of its competitors. As a technology professional, I think what you describe is par for course at all the banks, and more broadly speaking, pretty much all "non tech" companies in general where tech is considered an unrespected cost center. Tech compensation is bimodal. You have the top FAANG tier and maybe some companies one tier down where software engineers can make as much or more than medical doctors. Then you have a sharp drop off a cliff consisting of everyone else - where a senior or staff SWE equivalent with decades of experience can expect to retire in their 60s making about as much as a upper junior FAANG engineer. I was shocked last year when I heard my intern with zero years of experience got his offer...for about double my compensation at my last bank SWE job.
synergy20 3y ago
why chase still does 0% for saving and checking,which forces me to transfer most of my money to fidelity
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  You could also just buy VUSXX (or similar) through chase.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  So that Chase can earn more money from the 80% of people who can’t be bothered or have insignificant funds to move around.
John23832 3y ago
Oh I wasn't talking down about JPM. I actually worked there for a few in the Private Banking space (as a Software Engineer). Great bank, but they also have has the wind at their back in certain situations (being gifted First Republic in the latest regional banking crisis. FR just had a liquidity crisis. Functionally it was fine. JPM got a steal). Citi on the other hand hasn't had those options/gifts... largely because of prior mismanagement. I think they're only up 10% in the last 10 years or something crazy like that.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Citi has been the gang who can't shoot straight since the 80s.

bsdpufferfish 3y ago

In 2008 banks made behind closed doors deals with the government and some won and some were not invited (Lehman brothers, etc). We are still seeing the effects of that.

nickjj 3y ago

I never had an account anywhere else but Chase (run through JPM) is pretty good, independent of branding. I have no affiliation with them but at the branch I goto there's always a free ATM inside for quick things, they make it easy to schedule meetings for more complex tasks and the bankers who have their own cubicle tend to be knowledgeable (I've encountered a couple of them over the years). It's super easy to reach them too, and this is with a basic checking account only. Their checking account is free with no penalties as long as you direct deposit $500 / month OR keep $1,500 in there, for most folks on this site the first option means you only need to keep the bare minimum in there to pay your bills. I don't care about the lack of interest. Most trading platforms will give you 4%+ which IMO has a nice advantage in that you can stick idle cash in there (untraded) and collect risk free interest and you can quickly transfer it back to your bank account if you need it. It's a reasonable solution for an emergency fund, but it also doubles as a way to instantly put money into the market if an opportunity strikes.