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I often have trouble with challenging people at work. Over time it's become a habit to turn to this book to ride it out.

jacknews 3y ago
I often have trouble with challenging people at work. Me too. Should I demand a joust, or pistols at dawn?' For the video, I find the format completely destroys the content. Reading the book, I can almost put myself in the situation of a Roman Emperor arriving at these conclusions, after weary days of argument, etc, etc. In video form, they just wash over as meaningless aphorisms.
- PlasmonOwl 3y ago
  Or you could just drop their coffee mug…?
rgrieselhuber 3y ago
This is my primary objection against Stoicism.
- kuchenbecker 3y ago
  ...Why?
  - lebean 3y ago
    Because he's a challenging person.
    - rgrieselhuber 3y ago
      And yet I’m not the one who made it personal.
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  Apart from the bizarre parts of classic stoicism, what do you find is worth objecting to?
  - rgrieselhuber 3y ago
    While there is a rational basis for only focusing on the things you can control, in practice, I've observed that people who adhere to Stoicism as a core part of their philosophy toward life end up using it as a crutch to intellectualize disengagement and shy away from confrontation of all forms. There is a healthy and rational way to engage in conflict resolution and ignoring the problem, refusing to have difficult conversations, burying one's head in the sand, none of these things accomplish anything other than to result in a gradual surrender to people who have no such qualms.
    - throw_pm23 3y ago
      I think this is a valid objection and through the years I realized what the best use may be for stoicism: a fallback in difficult times when all other philosophies fail. Sure, if you can resolve conflicts and engage with problems, go for it and do it. Sometimes though the world around you is falling or you suffer terrible loss or you face impossible situations -- then Marcus Aurelius will still be there waiting for you, with advice to offer. Also worth remembering he wrote the thing itself with war and death all around him.
    - photonthug 3y ago
      I know what you're getting at here, but one should never underestimate the ability of the "self-help" publishers and snake-oil communities in general to commercialize, popularize, and ultimately derail and derange any kind of wisdom they get their hands on. Lots of people involved in "self-improvement" also aren't being honest with themselves and are actually looking to rationalize whatever their existing bad behaviours are with sophisticated-seeming nonsense. Stoicism is like Buddhism or anything else here, where you're better off with primary sources or certain vetted guides/commentaries. Talking to certain segments of people that loudly consider themselves practitioners may not be the best way to actually get acquainted with the philosophy..

jacknews 3y ago

I often have trouble with challenging people at work. Me too. Should I demand a joust, or pistols at dawn?' For the video, I find the format completely destroys the content. Reading the book, I can almost put myself in the situation of a Roman Emperor arriving at these conclusions, after weary days of argument, etc, etc. In video form, they just wash over as meaningless aphorisms.

PlasmonOwl 3y ago
Or you could just drop their coffee mug…?

rgrieselhuber 3y ago

This is my primary objection against Stoicism.

kuchenbecker 3y ago
...Why?
- lebean 3y ago
  Because he's a challenging person.
  - rgrieselhuber 3y ago
    And yet I’m not the one who made it personal.
steve_adams_86 3y ago
Apart from the bizarre parts of classic stoicism, what do you find is worth objecting to?
- rgrieselhuber 3y ago
  While there is a rational basis for only focusing on the things you can control, in practice, I've observed that people who adhere to Stoicism as a core part of their philosophy toward life end up using it as a crutch to intellectualize disengagement and shy away from confrontation of all forms. There is a healthy and rational way to engage in conflict resolution and ignoring the problem, refusing to have difficult conversations, burying one's head in the sand, none of these things accomplish anything other than to result in a gradual surrender to people who have no such qualms.
  - throw_pm23 3y ago
    I think this is a valid objection and through the years I realized what the best use may be for stoicism: a fallback in difficult times when all other philosophies fail. Sure, if you can resolve conflicts and engage with problems, go for it and do it. Sometimes though the world around you is falling or you suffer terrible loss or you face impossible situations -- then Marcus Aurelius will still be there waiting for you, with advice to offer. Also worth remembering he wrote the thing itself with war and death all around him.
  - photonthug 3y ago
    I know what you're getting at here, but one should never underestimate the ability of the "self-help" publishers and snake-oil communities in general to commercialize, popularize, and ultimately derail and derange any kind of wisdom they get their hands on. Lots of people involved in "self-improvement" also aren't being honest with themselves and are actually looking to rationalize whatever their existing bad behaviours are with sophisticated-seeming nonsense. Stoicism is like Buddhism or anything else here, where you're better off with primary sources or certain vetted guides/commentaries. Talking to certain segments of people that loudly consider themselves practitioners may not be the best way to actually get acquainted with the philosophy..