4 ms·

I'm confused. Are Sumerians, Akkadians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Phoenicians" now suddenly "europeans" just because they are part of the school curric

I'm confused. Are Sumerians, Akkadians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Phoenicians" now suddenly "europeans" just because they are part of the school curriculum that europeans teach to their kids? Most of the "foundations of western civilisation" is not actually european and that's a well known and accepted fact. Yes, greeks and romans sure, but where did the greeks take the alphabet? It's not controversial, everybody knows that europeans didn't invent writing nor civilization. It's also unsurprising that the first ancient civilizations to have been discovered by europeans were a) closer to europe (at least in the same continent) and b) not covered by jungle. If there are people in Europe who are ignorant of that, well that's unfortunate. But the world won't become a better place if all we do is to shame those people with self-flagellatory insinuations that they should re-think their place in the world or whatever. That doesn't work. The natural tendency of people who are looked down upon is to react and entrench themselves even deeper in their positions. I'd vastly prefer if we just teach to marvel at the beauty of our world and hopefully people who are willing to open up their minds will be attracted to the diversity and depth of our collective human experience and become less and less parochial.

ttt11199907 3y ago
> But the world won't become a better place if all we do is to shame those people with self-flagellatory insinuations that they should re-think their place in the world or whatever. Do you _actually_ feel shamed by the researcher, or by reading the researcher's opinion? Why feel shame over something you think is wrong? There were no admonishments or moral proclamations -- from whence cometh your shame? Also, there's some irony that you say "if all we do is shame people..." --- Don't lump me in with you! Isn't that your problem with the quote to begin with?
- ithkuil 3y ago
  I personally don't feel ashamed; I personally just feel annoyed but that's not why I'm complaining. I personally know people who do feel that kind of rhetoric to be a personal attack on their tribe. I don't personally belong to that tribe or even like that tribe but it exists and they're being energized by all those attacks. I like liberal values and I'm saddened by the rise of reactionaries. If I want to protect liberal values I know that being a jerk against conservatives is counterproductive. I don't care if it feels good, it's not effective. EDIT: I don't think the researcher or the journalist or you or anybody in particular is at fault here; we all react to the incentives around us. My dig is against the pattern and the perverse incentives that are creating this environment in the first place.

ttt11199907 3y ago

> But the world won't become a better place if all we do is to shame those people with self-flagellatory insinuations that they should re-think their place in the world or whatever. Do you _actually_ feel shamed by the researcher, or by reading the researcher's opinion? Why feel shame over something you think is wrong? There were no admonishments or moral proclamations -- from whence cometh your shame? Also, there's some irony that you say "if all we do is shame people..." --- Don't lump me in with you! Isn't that your problem with the quote to begin with?

ithkuil 3y ago
I personally don't feel ashamed; I personally just feel annoyed but that's not why I'm complaining. I personally know people who do feel that kind of rhetoric to be a personal attack on their tribe. I don't personally belong to that tribe or even like that tribe but it exists and they're being energized by all those attacks. I like liberal values and I'm saddened by the rise of reactionaries. If I want to protect liberal values I know that being a jerk against conservatives is counterproductive. I don't care if it feels good, it's not effective. EDIT: I don't think the researcher or the journalist or you or anybody in particular is at fault here; we all react to the incentives around us. My dig is against the pattern and the perverse incentives that are creating this environment in the first place.