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I think Perl is pretty much dead, who is starting a new project in Perl? I haven't seen a Perl project in years. It's just still heavily used in legacy applicat

I think Perl is pretty much dead, who is starting a new project in Perl? I haven't seen a Perl project in years. It's just still heavily used in legacy applications too big to rewrite.

moffkalast 3y ago
Every time anyone uses Latex on Windows it uses Perl to compile the pdf. One has to stand back and think how absolutely ridiculous that is in 2024.
- einpoklum 3y ago
  Yeah, I guess it is kind of ridiculous that Windows is still a thing :-)
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Both indeed are :P
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    It isn't for lack of trying the Linux Desktop thing.
    - einpoklum 3y ago
      Actually, I would say it is almost entirely for lack of trying the Linux Desktop thing. These days, (the more friendly) Linux desktop distributions are about as easy to install as Windows; about as easy to use as Windows; and about as maintainable by a novice user as Windows.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Having used Linux since 1995, I wonder where that magical Just Works TM distribution for laptops, lies on Distrowatch. Unless you're referring to Android/Linux or ChromeOS/Linux, instead of GNU/Linux.
        that_guy_iain 3y ago
        Yea, everytime I install linux on a new laptop there is something that doesn't work without a bunch of work and sometimes something that just doesn't work at all. It's way better than in the 2000s when I started to use Linux.
- w4 3y ago
  Why is it ridiculous? The goal of a computer program is to solve a problem. The Perl script solves the problem. It handles all of the weird edge cases a re-write would rediscover. Re-writing it would take engineer time away from other priorities. And a re-write in a new language offers no guarantee that Microsoft wouldn't find themselves in the exact same situation 10 years hence if the language they chose for the re-write falls out of favor. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Because it's an external dependency that must be installed manually in certain cases? A site must be up to host downloads for this prehistoric thing, and those binaries must be built, tested, and kept up to date by someone who might one day just vanish once they become bored of thanklessly maintaining a holy relic. Yes it may take more effort to rewrite it natively now into whichever language the latex compiler is written in otherwise, the real braindead decision was not starting out that way. I mean shit, a modern equivalent would be of having to install python to use rustc or something.
    - kergonath 3y ago
      > Because it's an external dependency that must be installed manually in certain cases? It is everywhere. About the only case where you’d need that is on Windows but then if you are installing LaTeX on Windows getting Perl is a tiny bit of the complexity of the whole thing. > A site must be up to host downloads for this prehistoric thing, and those binaries must be built, tested, and kept up to date by someone who might one day just vanish once they become bored of thanklessly maintaining a holy relic. It’s not any more prehistoric than emacs, bash, or GCC; its latest version was published about a month ago. The CPAN is perfectly able to handle downloads. And it’s going to be in the repositories of all Linux distributions for the foreseeable future, considering how many tools depend on it. It is under active development; I don’t know where you got the idea that it was one guy in his basement doing it. > Yes it may take more effort to rewrite it natively now into whichever language the latex compiler is written in otherwise, the real braindead decision was not starting out that way. The real braindead decision is to jump on every language du jour just because. There is an optimum and I am sure at some point it will get rewritten in something else (see lualatex for example), but we cannot rewrite everything that works from the ground up every time a new shiny language shows up. Latex does not rust but I am sure at some point someone will find a clever pun and there’ll be a Show HN about it. In the meantime raging because a bit of software use some random language is not very productive or helpful. > I mean shit, a modern equivalent would be of having to install python to use rustc or something. From my experience rustc is not easier to install on Windows than Perl. On Linux it does not matter as everything is in the repos anyway.
- d3w4s9 3y ago
  Well, I guess it won't be too long before someone completely rewrites that thing in another language. Or hope. (My guess is that people don't normally compile latex locally these days -- they do that on Overleaf -- and those who do use are old-school, hardcore users and they either use Linux or Mac)
- pvaldes 3y ago
  Latex or Postgresql. If I'm not wrong, Psql is a Perl script, and many pg_X commands (pg_ctlcluster, pg_conftool, pg_upgradecluster... etc) also are Perl. I can't see why is ridiculous if it works
deciduously 3y ago
There is a huge amount of perl on your average Linux system, and it's integral to the GNU Autotools suite which is still widely used in many critical system components. I have trouble imagining it going anywhere at this point.
- that_guy_iain 3y ago
  You seem to be confusing "new projects" with "maintained projects". Perl like all the other languages that are heavily used aren't going to be going anywhere. They're used in legacy code. However, the original comment had a definition. Which says nobody would use it to start a new project. Talking about currently maintained projects doesn't really change the fact it doesn't seem anyone is using it for new projects. > I think the meaningful definition of “dead language” is “nobody will begin a new code base in it any more, except as a hobby or research project”.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  Are new programmers learning perl? That's probably the real question. I think the answer is no. So it'll be dead as soon as all the people coding in it today retire.

I think Perl is pretty much dead, who is starting a new project in Perl? I haven't seen a Perl project in years. It's just still heavily used in legacy applications too big to rewrite.

moffkalast 3y ago

Every time anyone uses Latex on Windows it uses Perl to compile the pdf. One has to stand back and think how absolutely ridiculous that is in 2024.

einpoklum 3y ago
Yeah, I guess it is kind of ridiculous that Windows is still a thing :-)
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Both indeed are :P
- pjmlp 3y ago
  It isn't for lack of trying the Linux Desktop thing.
  - einpoklum 3y ago
    Actually, I would say it is almost entirely for lack of trying the Linux Desktop thing. These days, (the more friendly) Linux desktop distributions are about as easy to install as Windows; about as easy to use as Windows; and about as maintainable by a novice user as Windows.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Having used Linux since 1995, I wonder where that magical Just Works TM distribution for laptops, lies on Distrowatch. Unless you're referring to Android/Linux or ChromeOS/Linux, instead of GNU/Linux.
      - that_guy_iain 3y ago
        Yea, everytime I install linux on a new laptop there is something that doesn't work without a bunch of work and sometimes something that just doesn't work at all. It's way better than in the 2000s when I started to use Linux.
w4 3y ago
Why is it ridiculous? The goal of a computer program is to solve a problem. The Perl script solves the problem. It handles all of the weird edge cases a re-write would rediscover. Re-writing it would take engineer time away from other priorities. And a re-write in a new language offers no guarantee that Microsoft wouldn't find themselves in the exact same situation 10 years hence if the language they chose for the re-write falls out of favor. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Because it's an external dependency that must be installed manually in certain cases? A site must be up to host downloads for this prehistoric thing, and those binaries must be built, tested, and kept up to date by someone who might one day just vanish once they become bored of thanklessly maintaining a holy relic. Yes it may take more effort to rewrite it natively now into whichever language the latex compiler is written in otherwise, the real braindead decision was not starting out that way. I mean shit, a modern equivalent would be of having to install python to use rustc or something.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > Because it's an external dependency that must be installed manually in certain cases? It is everywhere. About the only case where you’d need that is on Windows but then if you are installing LaTeX on Windows getting Perl is a tiny bit of the complexity of the whole thing. > A site must be up to host downloads for this prehistoric thing, and those binaries must be built, tested, and kept up to date by someone who might one day just vanish once they become bored of thanklessly maintaining a holy relic. It’s not any more prehistoric than emacs, bash, or GCC; its latest version was published about a month ago. The CPAN is perfectly able to handle downloads. And it’s going to be in the repositories of all Linux distributions for the foreseeable future, considering how many tools depend on it. It is under active development; I don’t know where you got the idea that it was one guy in his basement doing it. > Yes it may take more effort to rewrite it natively now into whichever language the latex compiler is written in otherwise, the real braindead decision was not starting out that way. The real braindead decision is to jump on every language du jour just because. There is an optimum and I am sure at some point it will get rewritten in something else (see lualatex for example), but we cannot rewrite everything that works from the ground up every time a new shiny language shows up. Latex does not rust but I am sure at some point someone will find a clever pun and there’ll be a Show HN about it. In the meantime raging because a bit of software use some random language is not very productive or helpful. > I mean shit, a modern equivalent would be of having to install python to use rustc or something. From my experience rustc is not easier to install on Windows than Perl. On Linux it does not matter as everything is in the repos anyway.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Well, I guess it won't be too long before someone completely rewrites that thing in another language. Or hope. (My guess is that people don't normally compile latex locally these days -- they do that on Overleaf -- and those who do use are old-school, hardcore users and they either use Linux or Mac)
pvaldes 3y ago
Latex or Postgresql. If I'm not wrong, Psql is a Perl script, and many pg_X commands (pg_ctlcluster, pg_conftool, pg_upgradecluster... etc) also are Perl. I can't see why is ridiculous if it works

deciduously 3y ago

There is a huge amount of perl on your average Linux system, and it's integral to the GNU Autotools suite which is still widely used in many critical system components. I have trouble imagining it going anywhere at this point.

that_guy_iain 3y ago
You seem to be confusing "new projects" with "maintained projects". Perl like all the other languages that are heavily used aren't going to be going anywhere. They're used in legacy code. However, the original comment had a definition. Which says nobody would use it to start a new project. Talking about currently maintained projects doesn't really change the fact it doesn't seem anyone is using it for new projects. > I think the meaningful definition of “dead language” is “nobody will begin a new code base in it any more, except as a hobby or research project”.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
Are new programmers learning perl? That's probably the real question. I think the answer is no. So it'll be dead as soon as all the people coding in it today retire.