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> I can understand someone not having an inner voice, but I can’t see how writing is possible without inner speech. Otherwise, how can you have thoughts prior t
by boxed 3y ago
> I can understand someone not having an inner voice, but I can’t see how writing is possible without inner speech. Otherwise, how can you have thoughts prior to writing them down?
The conscious experience of inner voice/speece/eye/nose/whatever is not really saying something about how the rest of the brain functions. Almost everything anyone does is indeed not projected in inner mind before being executed. The subjective experience is a post-hoc narrative of what the mind did, not really a part of the planning process itself. Think about running in a dense forest for example. There's no way to plan with inner mind where to direct your eye muscles first and then having received the visual input, plan with inner mind where to put your feet on the ground to not trip on a rock or root.
- keiferski 3y agoI'm talking more about "thinking before you speak." As in, it seems to me that without some form of inner speech, it would be impossible to plan anything before vocalizing it, as you'd need to start talking/writing in order to actually think.
- vidarh 3y agoWhy do you think that?
- keiferski 3y agoHow could one "think about what they're going to say" without some level of prior inner speech or conceptualization? It may not be precisely the same as spoken speech, but it would still be a kind of speech.
- vidarh 3y agoWhy do you assume conceptualization requires verbalization?
- keiferski 3y agoThat's just how I understand the process, from my experience. Can you elaborate why you think it doesn't, instead of writing single sentence replies?
- vidarh 3y agoI don't know whether it does or doesn't, but I just don't see any evidence that demonstrates that we do. E.g. how do you know from your experience whether the verbalization drove the conceptualization or whether it's effectively purely narration of non-verbal conceptualization? It's not even a given that they happen at the same time vs. being a post-rationalization of processes happening separately (e.g. we know from split-brain experiments that the brain halves are perfectly happy to verbalize explanations for decisions they demonstrably didn't make)
- tacheiordache 3y agoI personally have a very hard time thinking out loud but have no problem thinking quietly. I'm for example terrible at explaining something while working on it but could easily explain it afterwards.
- boxed 3y agoIn a normal conversation I certainly don't do that. There's no way in hell I would have TIME to do that. It's too fast. And anyway, why would that make any more sense? How would you plan the internal voice in order to produce it? An inner-inner-voice? That would need an inner-inner-inner voice? It sounds like you have the homunculus idea of how human brain works. But this idea is nonsensical...