5 ms·

No where to leave. Industry is dead rn, at least if you're an SWE in Silicon Valley. All open positions are paying 50% less.

by euos 3y ago

altdataseller 3y ago
What do you mean 50% less? That sounds off.. by a lot. Salaries have either flattened or increased a bit from last year for SWEs
- riffraff 3y ago
  If I may suggest am interpretation: different kind of professionals may see different things. E.gm I'm told the market rate for react devs dropped like a brick, which is not the case for other software engineers.
  - altdataseller 3y ago
    If you call yourself a react dev, then I’m sorry you’re not a software engineer. That’s like calling urself a Facebook marketer instead of a marketer. Good way to box yourself into a niche that may run out of demand
grandmczeb 3y ago
Not even remotely true. Levels.fyi says SWE salaries are basically flat over the last year, which matches my experience. https://www.levels.fyi/2023/ https://www.levels.fyi/2023/
- ninkendo 3y ago
  I don’t know which of you is right, but I think you’re saying different things. They’re saying positions that are actually open right now are paying less, and you’re saying salaries for existing employees are flat. They could be right if the positions which are open are only recruiting those with lower salary expectations.
  - grandmczeb 3y ago
    No, I’m saying pay for new openings is flat. I just went through a job search, the numbers in the level.fyi data match my own job search experience looking at current openings.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  ... inflation happened. Flat salaries is a 20-30% paycut.
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    From 2019 maybe. 2023 inflation was ~3.5%
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      3.4% according to the latest number released in the past 24 hours.
    - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      That's interesting, because: - soda is up about 50% for name brand, and generic soda is up around 80% - diesel is up, what 50%? how much is regular gas in california? - housing "values" where I am at are up 25-40% in the last two years - Potato chips are up at least 40% - Apples are much more expensive - Restaurants are up at least 25%, some 50-75% Many of these products went up by these amounts yet also engaged in shrinkflation. The biggest example of this is Chipotle which almost doubled the cost of its burritos but also shrunk them in size by about a third. Governments are motivated to reduce inflation in inflation statistics. Perhaps the cost of goods for the ultra-rich hasn't really changed much, but for the poor (or cheap) they have all gone up quite dramatically in two years.
      - pie420 3y ago
        oh god, how will SF SWEs survive with more expensive potatoe chips and soda. Maybe stop drinking poison and processed foods and you'll be fine. A whole rotisserie chicken is only $8.99 at whole foods
bane 3y ago
If you can't collude on salaries, you can collude on layoffs which will drive salaries down if at large enough scale.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  If you can collude on layoffs, that means industry demand for labor is down and salaries are reflecting lowered demand. (which is to say that is just natural market forces, not collusion)
  - lmm 3y ago
    > If you can collude on layoffs, that means industry demand for labor is down and salaries are reflecting lowered demand. No it doesn't. You make a "gentleman's agreement" to do your layoffs and trust your chums to keep to it. Are you arguing that industry collusion is impossible?
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      Do you have any evidence of industry collusion? Else, this sounds like tinfoil hat stuff.
      - lmm 3y ago
        The "silicon valley anti-poaching agreement" is a known case where it happened a few years ago. So it's not too implausible to think that the current round of layoffs might be being coordinated in a similar way.
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        All you have to do is look at how these things play out. One large company announces they're considering layoffs, which primes everyone else to compile their own lists. After a month or two one company announces they're going through with layoffs, and that sets off a chain reaction for the rest to execute their own plans as soon as possible. It always happens like this. Everyone just decides now is the time to clean house, all at the same time, and we all decided to do this independent of each other... The "collusion" is a dog-whistle protocol happening in plain sight. There is no "evidence," no damning email to be found, only behavioral patterns to observe. It's the same playbook every single time.
pie420 3y ago
boo hoo, how will SWE survive on a paltry $150k per year for adjusting drop down menu fonts. The salaries in tech were ridiculous and an insult to other professionals that actually improved the world. Now that 0% interest rates are gone and most tech is mature and cranking up margins by pushing more ads, you don't need as many SWEs. Michelin-chef meals, onsite daycare, 400K salaries, and nap rooms were not a sustainable long term thing

No where to leave. Industry is dead rn, at least if you're an SWE in Silicon Valley. All open positions are paying 50% less.

by euos 3y ago

No where to leave. Industry is dead rn, at least if you're an SWE in Silicon Valley. All open positions are paying 50% less.

altdataseller 3y ago

What do you mean 50% less? That sounds off.. by a lot. Salaries have either flattened or increased a bit from last year for SWEs

riffraff 3y ago
If I may suggest am interpretation: different kind of professionals may see different things. E.gm I'm told the market rate for react devs dropped like a brick, which is not the case for other software engineers.
- altdataseller 3y ago
  If you call yourself a react dev, then I’m sorry you’re not a software engineer. That’s like calling urself a Facebook marketer instead of a marketer. Good way to box yourself into a niche that may run out of demand

grandmczeb 3y ago

Not even remotely true. Levels.fyi says SWE salaries are basically flat over the last year, which matches my experience. https://www.levels.fyi/2023/ https://www.levels.fyi/2023/

ninkendo 3y ago
I don’t know which of you is right, but I think you’re saying different things. They’re saying positions that are actually open right now are paying less, and you’re saying salaries for existing employees are flat. They could be right if the positions which are open are only recruiting those with lower salary expectations.
- grandmczeb 3y ago
  No, I’m saying pay for new openings is flat. I just went through a job search, the numbers in the level.fyi data match my own job search experience looking at current openings.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
... inflation happened. Flat salaries is a 20-30% paycut.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  From 2019 maybe. 2023 inflation was ~3.5%
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    3.4% according to the latest number released in the past 24 hours.
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    That's interesting, because: - soda is up about 50% for name brand, and generic soda is up around 80% - diesel is up, what 50%? how much is regular gas in california? - housing "values" where I am at are up 25-40% in the last two years - Potato chips are up at least 40% - Apples are much more expensive - Restaurants are up at least 25%, some 50-75% Many of these products went up by these amounts yet also engaged in shrinkflation. The biggest example of this is Chipotle which almost doubled the cost of its burritos but also shrunk them in size by about a third. Governments are motivated to reduce inflation in inflation statistics. Perhaps the cost of goods for the ultra-rich hasn't really changed much, but for the poor (or cheap) they have all gone up quite dramatically in two years.
    - pie420 3y ago
      oh god, how will SF SWEs survive with more expensive potatoe chips and soda. Maybe stop drinking poison and processed foods and you'll be fine. A whole rotisserie chicken is only $8.99 at whole foods

bane 3y ago

If you can't collude on salaries, you can collude on layoffs which will drive salaries down if at large enough scale.

Ferret7446 3y ago
If you can collude on layoffs, that means industry demand for labor is down and salaries are reflecting lowered demand. (which is to say that is just natural market forces, not collusion)
- lmm 3y ago
  > If you can collude on layoffs, that means industry demand for labor is down and salaries are reflecting lowered demand. No it doesn't. You make a "gentleman's agreement" to do your layoffs and trust your chums to keep to it. Are you arguing that industry collusion is impossible?
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Do you have any evidence of industry collusion? Else, this sounds like tinfoil hat stuff.
    - lmm 3y ago
      The "silicon valley anti-poaching agreement" is a known case where it happened a few years ago. So it's not too implausible to think that the current round of layoffs might be being coordinated in a similar way.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      All you have to do is look at how these things play out. One large company announces they're considering layoffs, which primes everyone else to compile their own lists. After a month or two one company announces they're going through with layoffs, and that sets off a chain reaction for the rest to execute their own plans as soon as possible. It always happens like this. Everyone just decides now is the time to clean house, all at the same time, and we all decided to do this independent of each other... The "collusion" is a dog-whistle protocol happening in plain sight. There is no "evidence," no damning email to be found, only behavioral patterns to observe. It's the same playbook every single time.

pie420 3y ago

boo hoo, how will SWE survive on a paltry $150k per year for adjusting drop down menu fonts. The salaries in tech were ridiculous and an insult to other professionals that actually improved the world. Now that 0% interest rates are gone and most tech is mature and cranking up margins by pushing more ads, you don't need as many SWEs. Michelin-chef meals, onsite daycare, 400K salaries, and nap rooms were not a sustainable long term thing