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Sorry do you live in some dream land ? The majority of the world's enterprise web apps run on Java. There is ZERO chance that Java is going to be retired anyti

Sorry do you live in some dream land ? The majority of the world's enterprise web apps run on Java. There is ZERO chance that Java is going to be retired anytime soon if you look around at the languages available today. There just simply isn't anything available that can compete with the breadth of libraries or developer base. The fact is that if Android no longer runs Java it is going to be a big blow no matter which way you spin it.

Roboprog 15y ago
Dream land? No, I've woken up in the Java "gulag" for quite a few years now. :-) The scenario was meant to be a bit "over the rainbow". While it's unlikely, people do sometimes switch platforms given motivation. How many people really were itching to learn Objective C before Apple starting pushing it? (you few "NextStep" old timers in back, I'm not talking about you) Given a way to do user I/O and data persistance on a sane platform, people are pretty good at making do on just about any platform without the "gift" of a billion lines of other code.
- taligent 15y ago
  The difference for Objective C was that (a) there were a large amount of existing Mac developers and they are hardly just NextStep users and (b) iOS makes money which justified the transition. Honestly the days of writing a billion lines of Java code were over a while ago. Platforms like Play, Grails etc which are quite light are becoming more common. Realistically there is that only one other platform exists that they could switch to: Javascript.
  - patrickaljord 15y ago
    Dart?
    - pooriaazimi 15y ago
      IMO It'd be the best thing Google could do, but (sadly - even though I don't like Google one bit) they don't have the courage.
    - taligent 15y ago
      Nobody knows Dart. Almost everybody knows Javascript. Not to mention that Google's V8 would make a great foundation.
  - Roboprog 15y ago
    I'm not talking having to write millions of lines of new code to create an application. I'm talking about the dubious value of the "Sagans and Sagans" of lines of (Java) code that one supposedly could not live without. How many of those J2EE and related libraries really do all that much, as opposed to misguided make-work? Given sufficient motivation, I suspect a team of 20 part time volunteers could create an amazing application framework for a new language (or, newly popular language) in about a year, if the platform was enjoyable and perceived to be something that would actually be used for several years and several possible employers / business opportunities. As an example, the early versions of RoR seemed to come out of nowhere. (not saying we should run Ruby on phones, it seems kind of piggish, just as an example of a few people scratching an itch) Wasn't the Apple switch from Pascal to Objective C for OSX exactly that kind of "we'll make it worth your while" change-over?
fleitz 15y ago
Yes, just as the majority of the world's mainframe apps run on COBOL. Similarly COBOL won't be retired anytime soon. Those facts don't make COBOL something you'd want to write apps in. I hear there's a new COBOL DI framework so you can write XML instead of COBOL.
protolif 15y ago
Programmers have been tossing the word Enterprise around for decades, like it means something. Quit it already. You're embarrassing yourself. Many so-called Enterprise Java apps often don't work at all unless you've installed the /exact/ JRE version that the particular app supports (Looking at you, Citrix). The fact is, that it was a dying language before Android. Hopefully it will resume dying, and Google will either release something better, or embrace an existing Open Source community like JavaScript, Ruby, or Python. (Edit: Now that I think about it, Google's own V8 JavaScript engine would be well suited for this. It already supports ARM Linux.) Personally, I was forced to take 2 Java classes in college. The examples in our labs never worked. I had to Google everything in the book to make Java code that actually ran. Swing looks the same as it did in 1996. Everyone at the local JUG was considerably older, and spent most of the time complaining about what a pain SVN was. (A clue: You're doing it wrong.) Despite all of this, I was still learning to program, and actually sortof enjoyed it. But then Sun got acquired by Oracle, inventors of the only database system that makes me want to kill myself. After that, I started seriously considering other languages. But the real nail in the coffin was when Oracle decided to cockblock Apache Harmony, and Apache stepped down from the Java Committee. For shame, Oracle. After all nice things Apache made for the Java Community. How fitting, that Google used Harmony code to create Dalvik, the Android VM.

Roboprog 15y ago

Dream land? No, I've woken up in the Java "gulag" for quite a few years now. :-) The scenario was meant to be a bit "over the rainbow". While it's unlikely, people do sometimes switch platforms given motivation. How many people really were itching to learn Objective C before Apple starting pushing it? (you few "NextStep" old timers in back, I'm not talking about you) Given a way to do user I/O and data persistance on a sane platform, people are pretty good at making do on just about any platform without the "gift" of a billion lines of other code.

taligent 15y ago
The difference for Objective C was that (a) there were a large amount of existing Mac developers and they are hardly just NextStep users and (b) iOS makes money which justified the transition. Honestly the days of writing a billion lines of Java code were over a while ago. Platforms like Play, Grails etc which are quite light are becoming more common. Realistically there is that only one other platform exists that they could switch to: Javascript.
- patrickaljord 15y ago
  Dart?
  - pooriaazimi 15y ago
    IMO It'd be the best thing Google could do, but (sadly - even though I don't like Google one bit) they don't have the courage.
  - taligent 15y ago
    Nobody knows Dart. Almost everybody knows Javascript. Not to mention that Google's V8 would make a great foundation.
- Roboprog 15y ago
  I'm not talking having to write millions of lines of new code to create an application. I'm talking about the dubious value of the "Sagans and Sagans" of lines of (Java) code that one supposedly could not live without. How many of those J2EE and related libraries really do all that much, as opposed to misguided make-work? Given sufficient motivation, I suspect a team of 20 part time volunteers could create an amazing application framework for a new language (or, newly popular language) in about a year, if the platform was enjoyable and perceived to be something that would actually be used for several years and several possible employers / business opportunities. As an example, the early versions of RoR seemed to come out of nowhere. (not saying we should run Ruby on phones, it seems kind of piggish, just as an example of a few people scratching an itch) Wasn't the Apple switch from Pascal to Objective C for OSX exactly that kind of "we'll make it worth your while" change-over?

fleitz 15y ago

Yes, just as the majority of the world's mainframe apps run on COBOL. Similarly COBOL won't be retired anytime soon. Those facts don't make COBOL something you'd want to write apps in. I hear there's a new COBOL DI framework so you can write XML instead of COBOL.

protolif 15y ago

Programmers have been tossing the word Enterprise around for decades, like it means something. Quit it already. You're embarrassing yourself. Many so-called Enterprise Java apps often don't work at all unless you've installed the /exact/ JRE version that the particular app supports (Looking at you, Citrix). The fact is, that it was a dying language before Android. Hopefully it will resume dying, and Google will either release something better, or embrace an existing Open Source community like JavaScript, Ruby, or Python. (Edit: Now that I think about it, Google's own V8 JavaScript engine would be well suited for this. It already supports ARM Linux.) Personally, I was forced to take 2 Java classes in college. The examples in our labs never worked. I had to Google everything in the book to make Java code that actually ran. Swing looks the same as it did in 1996. Everyone at the local JUG was considerably older, and spent most of the time complaining about what a pain SVN was. (A clue: You're doing it wrong.) Despite all of this, I was still learning to program, and actually sortof enjoyed it. But then Sun got acquired by Oracle, inventors of the only database system that makes me want to kill myself. After that, I started seriously considering other languages. But the real nail in the coffin was when Oracle decided to cockblock Apache Harmony, and Apache stepped down from the Java Committee. For shame, Oracle. After all nice things Apache made for the Java Community. How fitting, that Google used Harmony code to create Dalvik, the Android VM.