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You pay income tax based on where you live though. So I can earn money from Germany, but if I live in Estonia, my taxes go to Estonia. Most remote workers I kno

You pay income tax based on where you live though. So I can earn money from Germany, but if I live in Estonia, my taxes go to Estonia. Most remote workers I know are set up as LLC's, and they simply invoice their clients for the work, entirely avoiding any tax or social security issues for the employer, since you the employee have to deal with it yourself in your own country.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Yeah, you can but as LLCs, not as direct employees.
- askonomm 3y ago
  Well yes, EU/Europe is a collection of many independent countries, unlike U.S which is one country. And you can't work in a country as an employee without having a residence permit in that country. The comparison to U.S here makes absolutely no sense.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >The comparison to U.S here makes absolutely no sense. Why not? My ex German boss moved to the US to work for a company there and since the position is remote, he can live and work in any state he wants. You can't do that in the EU which limits labor mobility which hurts the EU economy and innovation versus the US.
    - askonomm 3y ago
      United States is one country. European Union is not a country, it is a collection of many independent countries with separate laws, languages, cultures, governments. You can also live and work from any corner of the same country in EU if you want, provided that your job is also in the same country, just like in the U.S. This is not any different. What you're saying is like can you work for a Canadian company while living in the U.S? Or an Argentinian company while living in the U.S? I don't think so. So I fail to see how U.S is somehow better here, and you're comparing European Union to 1 country, which is just ridiculous, since EU is not a country. European Union "states" are not the same as U.S states. They are actual countries.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        I never said the EU is a country (nor does it need to be to fulfill my point), but as an economic block, if it wishes to compete with the US in terms of economy and innovation, it needs to do better in terms of labor mobility, and the current status quo is holding it back. I hope my point of what I originally meant is clear now and you don't need to explain anymore about why the EU is not a country like the US.
        lm28469 3y ago
        It's completely possible in theory, just very hard in practice. It's an economical alliance, not a federation, each country has different tax, social security, pension, health insurance, labor laws, &c. all of them are as complex as your home country's one, but now you have to deal with them in a foreign language, and your employer hr has to deal with them too It's just much easier to relocate or hire a local than to play this game for a nomad tech bro that will stay 2 years before jumping to his next adventure So yes you seem to acknowledge the reality that the EU is composed of different countries but you don't seem to grasp the complexity of the consequences
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >just very hard in practice Yes it is, by design. And why aren't we(the EU) trying to make it easier? >It's just much easier to relocate or hire a local Is it? Then what about the famous "m'uh labor shortage" employers are crying about? If they'd be open and have simpler ways to hire people remotely from other EU memebrs, their labor shortages could be over. Phisical relocation of people/families across countries just for a job that can be done remotely, is also a huge PITA for the environment due to all the back and forth traveling between home country and work country people do, and for the housing market, not to mention for the family unit and communities loosing people having to uproot themveles just to press keys on a laptop but only if done inside the right EU country for the same souless corporation. Do I need to state even more benefits of easy EU wide remote work would bring or is the silliness of the current EU status quo beginning to sink in? >but you don't seem to grasp the complexity of the consequences Oh I know the complexities very well, but that was not my point. My point was: why aren't we(the EU) fighting to reduce or emliminate those complexities in order to imporve labor mobility which would help reduce labor shortages and also improve the job prospects of people who can't relocate due to family or whatever personal reasons?
- oytis 3y ago
  At least in Germany there are strict rules for what is called a pretence of self-employment. A freelancer needs to have more than one client, the client cannot set working hours, access to systems also cannot be the same as for employees etc. US has something similar AFAIK, I would expect most EU countries to have it too.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Yeah but that doesn't aid cross-EU remote work, quite the contrary.
gituliar 3y ago
At first you pay taxes in the country the company you work for is registered (there might be b2b options, which might differ). Then you pay rest in the country where you have a tax residency. In your example, at first you pay taxes in Germany and if Estonian taxes are bigger, you pay the difference there.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  I am partly working for an Italian company from Germany. Billing is very simple. I invoice the Italian company according to the so-called reverse charge procedure: My invoice does not include VAT, but only the European VAT number of my and the customer's company. The customer must settle the VAT with his tax office. I only have to inform my tax office at regular intervals about the turnover with the individual companies, so that the European tax authorities can check whether the customer has declared his taxes correctly. I invoice via my own company. But this is not mandatory. You can also apply for a VAT number as an individual and follow the same procedure. I did this before I set up the company.
  - gituliar 3y ago
    This is because you run your own company. Things are different if one works for a company as an employee.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Yeah, you can but as LLCs, not as direct employees.

askonomm 3y ago
Well yes, EU/Europe is a collection of many independent countries, unlike U.S which is one country. And you can't work in a country as an employee without having a residence permit in that country. The comparison to U.S here makes absolutely no sense.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >The comparison to U.S here makes absolutely no sense. Why not? My ex German boss moved to the US to work for a company there and since the position is remote, he can live and work in any state he wants. You can't do that in the EU which limits labor mobility which hurts the EU economy and innovation versus the US.
  - askonomm 3y ago
    United States is one country. European Union is not a country, it is a collection of many independent countries with separate laws, languages, cultures, governments. You can also live and work from any corner of the same country in EU if you want, provided that your job is also in the same country, just like in the U.S. This is not any different. What you're saying is like can you work for a Canadian company while living in the U.S? Or an Argentinian company while living in the U.S? I don't think so. So I fail to see how U.S is somehow better here, and you're comparing European Union to 1 country, which is just ridiculous, since EU is not a country. European Union "states" are not the same as U.S states. They are actual countries.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      I never said the EU is a country (nor does it need to be to fulfill my point), but as an economic block, if it wishes to compete with the US in terms of economy and innovation, it needs to do better in terms of labor mobility, and the current status quo is holding it back. I hope my point of what I originally meant is clear now and you don't need to explain anymore about why the EU is not a country like the US.
      - lm28469 3y ago
        It's completely possible in theory, just very hard in practice. It's an economical alliance, not a federation, each country has different tax, social security, pension, health insurance, labor laws, &c. all of them are as complex as your home country's one, but now you have to deal with them in a foreign language, and your employer hr has to deal with them too It's just much easier to relocate or hire a local than to play this game for a nomad tech bro that will stay 2 years before jumping to his next adventure So yes you seem to acknowledge the reality that the EU is composed of different countries but you don't seem to grasp the complexity of the consequences
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >just very hard in practice Yes it is, by design. And why aren't we(the EU) trying to make it easier? >It's just much easier to relocate or hire a local Is it? Then what about the famous "m'uh labor shortage" employers are crying about? If they'd be open and have simpler ways to hire people remotely from other EU memebrs, their labor shortages could be over. Phisical relocation of people/families across countries just for a job that can be done remotely, is also a huge PITA for the environment due to all the back and forth traveling between home country and work country people do, and for the housing market, not to mention for the family unit and communities loosing people having to uproot themveles just to press keys on a laptop but only if done inside the right EU country for the same souless corporation. Do I need to state even more benefits of easy EU wide remote work would bring or is the silliness of the current EU status quo beginning to sink in? >but you don't seem to grasp the complexity of the consequences Oh I know the complexities very well, but that was not my point. My point was: why aren't we(the EU) fighting to reduce or emliminate those complexities in order to imporve labor mobility which would help reduce labor shortages and also improve the job prospects of people who can't relocate due to family or whatever personal reasons?
oytis 3y ago
At least in Germany there are strict rules for what is called a pretence of self-employment. A freelancer needs to have more than one client, the client cannot set working hours, access to systems also cannot be the same as for employees etc. US has something similar AFAIK, I would expect most EU countries to have it too.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Yeah but that doesn't aid cross-EU remote work, quite the contrary.

gituliar 3y ago

At first you pay taxes in the country the company you work for is registered (there might be b2b options, which might differ). Then you pay rest in the country where you have a tax residency. In your example, at first you pay taxes in Germany and if Estonian taxes are bigger, you pay the difference there.

Archelaos 3y ago
I am partly working for an Italian company from Germany. Billing is very simple. I invoice the Italian company according to the so-called reverse charge procedure: My invoice does not include VAT, but only the European VAT number of my and the customer's company. The customer must settle the VAT with his tax office. I only have to inform my tax office at regular intervals about the turnover with the individual companies, so that the European tax authorities can check whether the customer has declared his taxes correctly. I invoice via my own company. But this is not mandatory. You can also apply for a VAT number as an individual and follow the same procedure. I did this before I set up the company.
- gituliar 3y ago
  This is because you run your own company. Things are different if one works for a company as an employee.