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this is false, first of all when there was a fight against ISIS, of course there were civilian casualties. Secondly, Israel has unique security challenges that

this is false, first of all when there was a fight against ISIS, of course there were civilian casualties. Secondly, Israel has unique security challenges that most nations on Earth do not face. Which nation has a terrorist army on its border ? "oppressed people fight back" is a red herring. Israel left Gaza in 2005, nobody prevented Gaza at that point from becoming paradise, instead of a terrorist haven. And now, with Hamas in charge and vowing to repeat October 7th again and again, Israel has no choice but to go in and eliminate Hamas.

mandmandam 3y ago
There's no Hamas in the West Bank, but Israel have killed 329 people there in the last 3 months. 86 of them children. > nobody prevented Gaza at that point from becoming paradise, instead of a terrorist haven The colonies were removed, but Israel retained control of Gaza's air, land, sea and airwaves. "Preventive strikes" have killed many civilians. Peaceful protests have resulted in murder and maim. There is wall to wall consensus within the international community that Gaza is occupied, including the normally reserved ICRC [0]. > The ICRC considers Gaza to remain occupied Palestinian territory on the basis that Israel still exercises key elements of authority over the strip, including over its borders (airspace, sea and land - at the exception of the border with Egypt). Even though Israel no longer maintains a permanent presence inside the Gaza Strip, it continues to be bound by certain obligations under the law of occupation that are commensurate with the degree to which it exercises control over it. Pretty clear. If you don't like that, you can read the UN Rapporteur Francesca Albanese view on Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories [1] > And now, with Hamas in charge and vowing to repeat October 7th again and again, Israel has no choice but to go in and eliminate Hamas Again with this nonsense. They're not going after Hamas, they're trying to force Gazans out. You can see their own Minister of Communication, and others, saying this on national TV. [2] > "oppressed people fight back" is a red herring. No, no it isn't. It's a reality. People have a right to fight back against oppression. Calling them "terrorists" doesn't justify genocide - again, the Genocide Convention which you keep ignoring is very clear on that point. I don't know what it would take to break you from this alternate reality that you are in, but I really hope you do. 0 - https://www.icrc.org/en/document/frequently-asked-questions-icrcs-work-israel-and-occupied-territories https://www.icrc.org/en/document/frequently-asked-questions-... 1 - https://www.jurist.org/features/2023/09/06/un-special-rapporteur-israel-palestine/# https://www.jurist.org/features/2023/09/06/un-special-rappor... 2 - https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-slam-inflammatory-call-by-israeli-minister-smotrich-voluntary-emigration-of-gaza/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-slam-inflammatory-call...
- vasilipupkin 3y ago
  Again wit this nonsense ? You are not engaging with the facts. The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas, they are literally losing soldiers daily in battles witn Hamas, it’s absurd to deny this People have a right to fight against oppression is a red herring because you are unable to engage with actual facts The actual fact is Israel left Gaza completely. At which point Gazans had a choice. And they chose Hamas which proceeded to continuously attack Israel and fire rockets at it, culminating in October 7th its impossible to deny this simple reality. And this simple reality means Israel has no choice but to defeat Hamas militarily once and for all, which it’s now attempting to do There is no Hamas in the West Bank? This is false, as anyone with a google account can verify. Hamas doesn’t fully control the West Bank, but of course it has a presence there along with other terrorist groups, especially in certain cities like Jenin If you want to understand this conflict, you have to understand the facts first
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    > There is no Hamas in the West Bank > The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas [..] because you are unable to engage with actual facts
    - vasilipupkin 3y ago
      there is Hamas in the West Bank. That statement is simply false, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have a strong presence in the West Bank. https://acleddata.com/2023/12/14/the-resurgence-of-armed-groups-in-the-west-bank-and-their-connections-to-gaza/ https://acleddata.com/2023/12/14/the-resurgence-of-armed-gro... It's true that Hamas and Islamic Jihad do not fully control the West Bank. But once someone says "there is no Hamas in the West Bank", that's a dead giveaway the person is talking either in bad faith or is simply clueless
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    Bad faith discussions are discouraged here. Bad faith includes thing like refusing to engage with reality, and calling horrific lies that amount to genocide denial "actual facts", or calling a fact based argument "nonsense". > The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas, they are literally losing soldiers daily in battles witn Hamas, it’s absurd to deny this I don't know how this point makes any logical sense to you, unless you're arguing in bad faith. Israel losing soldiers doesn't mean anything about Israel "going after Hamas". They'd lose soldiers if their goal was total destruction and making Palestinian lives so miserable and unlivable that they move "voluntarily" as expressed by Israel's own Minister for Communications. > If you want to understand this conflict, you have to understand the facts first It's a genocide. Lawyers for the top court in the world have made a profoundly well sourced and factual argument on this. If you have any respect whatsoever for truth and reality, I urge you to watch or read the arguments presented before saying things like "you have to understand the facts".

mandmandam 3y ago

There's no Hamas in the West Bank, but Israel have killed 329 people there in the last 3 months. 86 of them children. > nobody prevented Gaza at that point from becoming paradise, instead of a terrorist haven The colonies were removed, but Israel retained control of Gaza's air, land, sea and airwaves. "Preventive strikes" have killed many civilians. Peaceful protests have resulted in murder and maim. There is wall to wall consensus within the international community that Gaza is occupied, including the normally reserved ICRC [0]. > The ICRC considers Gaza to remain occupied Palestinian territory on the basis that Israel still exercises key elements of authority over the strip, including over its borders (airspace, sea and land - at the exception of the border with Egypt). Even though Israel no longer maintains a permanent presence inside the Gaza Strip, it continues to be bound by certain obligations under the law of occupation that are commensurate with the degree to which it exercises control over it. Pretty clear. If you don't like that, you can read the UN Rapporteur Francesca Albanese view on Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories [1] > And now, with Hamas in charge and vowing to repeat October 7th again and again, Israel has no choice but to go in and eliminate Hamas Again with this nonsense. They're not going after Hamas, they're trying to force Gazans out. You can see their own Minister of Communication, and others, saying this on national TV. [2] > "oppressed people fight back" is a red herring. No, no it isn't. It's a reality. People have a right to fight back against oppression. Calling them "terrorists" doesn't justify genocide - again, the Genocide Convention which you keep ignoring is very clear on that point. I don't know what it would take to break you from this alternate reality that you are in, but I really hope you do. 0 - https://www.icrc.org/en/document/frequently-asked-questions-icrcs-work-israel-and-occupied-territories https://www.icrc.org/en/document/frequently-asked-questions-... 1 - https://www.jurist.org/features/2023/09/06/un-special-rapporteur-israel-palestine/# https://www.jurist.org/features/2023/09/06/un-special-rappor... 2 - https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-slam-inflammatory-call-by-israeli-minister-smotrich-voluntary-emigration-of-gaza/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-slam-inflammatory-call...

vasilipupkin 3y ago
Again wit this nonsense ? You are not engaging with the facts. The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas, they are literally losing soldiers daily in battles witn Hamas, it’s absurd to deny this People have a right to fight against oppression is a red herring because you are unable to engage with actual facts The actual fact is Israel left Gaza completely. At which point Gazans had a choice. And they chose Hamas which proceeded to continuously attack Israel and fire rockets at it, culminating in October 7th its impossible to deny this simple reality. And this simple reality means Israel has no choice but to defeat Hamas militarily once and for all, which it’s now attempting to do There is no Hamas in the West Bank? This is false, as anyone with a google account can verify. Hamas doesn’t fully control the West Bank, but of course it has a presence there along with other terrorist groups, especially in certain cities like Jenin If you want to understand this conflict, you have to understand the facts first
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  > There is no Hamas in the West Bank > The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas [..] because you are unable to engage with actual facts
  - vasilipupkin 3y ago
    there is Hamas in the West Bank. That statement is simply false, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have a strong presence in the West Bank. https://acleddata.com/2023/12/14/the-resurgence-of-armed-groups-in-the-west-bank-and-their-connections-to-gaza/ https://acleddata.com/2023/12/14/the-resurgence-of-armed-gro... It's true that Hamas and Islamic Jihad do not fully control the West Bank. But once someone says "there is no Hamas in the West Bank", that's a dead giveaway the person is talking either in bad faith or is simply clueless
- mandmandam 3y ago
  Bad faith discussions are discouraged here. Bad faith includes thing like refusing to engage with reality, and calling horrific lies that amount to genocide denial "actual facts", or calling a fact based argument "nonsense". > The fact is of course Israel is going after Hamas, they are literally losing soldiers daily in battles witn Hamas, it’s absurd to deny this I don't know how this point makes any logical sense to you, unless you're arguing in bad faith. Israel losing soldiers doesn't mean anything about Israel "going after Hamas". They'd lose soldiers if their goal was total destruction and making Palestinian lives so miserable and unlivable that they move "voluntarily" as expressed by Israel's own Minister for Communications. > If you want to understand this conflict, you have to understand the facts first It's a genocide. Lawyers for the top court in the world have made a profoundly well sourced and factual argument on this. If you have any respect whatsoever for truth and reality, I urge you to watch or read the arguments presented before saying things like "you have to understand the facts".