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Refreshing read – the part about how employers need to actively court employees, how those top of their game are less likely to send out resumes, etc. But I fe

Refreshing read – the part about how employers need to actively court employees, how those top of their game are less likely to send out resumes, etc. But I feel some points are on the way to being old and cliched (like the terms 'rockstars' and 'ninjas'.) Not just from 42Floors but other recruitment post descriptions. I'm referring specifically to the perks and 'freedom' the companies promise. ie: Unlimited Holiday/Vacations days! Work on anything you want! Make your own projects! Don't sign anything. Total freedom! I never worked at any place that offered these perks (I'm not that awesome yet) but do people really take advantage of them? Isn't it kind of weird to offer those perks – what exactly are is the company hiring for then? Doesn't it come off as lack of focus if employees can do whatever they want? (Unless they're in the R&D department, or they can do whatever they want 20% of the time) It's also like the perk of having access to a game room filled with XBox's. I interviewed at a place where there was an XBox in the center of the work area – how will anyone feel comfortable playing in there, surrounded by others working away. It just feels like a gimmicky perk. Personally, a better perk would be access to a nice bathroom with a shower for those late nights when I need to refresh.

jetti 15y ago
Some of those perks I understand are useful and there to help the employees (such as the unlimited vacation, the catch is that typically you have to be able to finish your work on time). Others, are just clever schemes to make employees stay at work longer and be ok with it. "Doesn't it come off as lack of focus if employees can do whatever they want?" I know I spend some time hashing something out that is unrelated to my job just because it crossed my mind and it is just too awesome not to work on at the moment. The 20% policy just says, "hey it's ok to do that and why don't you show it to us so we can make even more money off your previously non-work related thoughts".
pyoung 15y ago
The 'Unlimited Holiday/Vacation days' particularly bugs me. In a competitive work environment, it is not uncommon for people to go for years without taking a some decent time off (I did that). If it wasn't for our 'use it or lose it' policy (we are allowed to accrue up to twice our yearly amount before we get cutoff), I would probably never go on vacation. I have a feeling that people who work at companies with the unlimited policy probably take fewer vacation days than normal folks, just because no one wants to be 'that guy' who abuses the perk. Anyone have experience with it?
- ben1040 15y ago
  It struck me that "unlimited vacation days" also seems like a way to make sure that when people quit, you don't have to pay out a vacation dump. And if you have a team of workaholics who never take time off, then those payouts could get big. I worked for a company whose policy was to cap vacation payouts when people left. The employee handbook stated that you'd be paid a maximum of 40 hours vacation unless state law at your work location said otherwise. If you had more than 5 days vacation in your bucket, well, tough luck. Luckily I lived/worked in IL at the time I quit that job, and IL forbids this. When researching that, I noticed there's a disparity among states in terms of how vacation time is treated. Some states treat accrued vacation time as earned compensation that just hasn't yet been paid, and must be paid on termination. Other states treat vacation time as an agreement that you just don't have to come into work and you'll still get paid, and the employer is free to pay out vacation accruals however they like (or not at all). It seems like by providing no defined accruals of vacation time, you step around the whole "earned yet unpaid compensation" and turn time off into an agreement that you won't come in and they will still pay you.
- jonathanwallace 15y ago
  Yes, I have experience with it and due to the points you raise, we've recently switched from "unlimited vacation" to "mandatory unlimited vacation." Not taking vacation is grounds for dismissal, http://not-so-secret-sauce.highgroove.com/topics/vacation-policy.html http://not-so-secret-sauce.highgroove.com/topics/vacation-po...
  - philwelch 14y ago
    At what point do you actually fire people? For instance, if they go like 18 months without vacation, do you literally fire them? Wouldn't it be easier to just grab them and say "hey, next two weeks are on the house, go have some fun and I don't want to see you come into the office or make any commits"?
    - jonathanwallace 14y ago
      Our feedback cycles are much much shorter than 18 months. It would never go that long. We have semi-annual reviews. We also have weekly 1-on-1s and one of the best portions is "what sucks?" This portion of the 1-on-1 is a time to vent about anything and everything no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. Don't like the flavor of free yogurt? Bring it up. Desirous of different snacks? Mention it. Feeling overwhelmed or burnt out? Say so. All of the what sucks from all developers is compiled into one email and sent out along with action items on each issue is being addressed. Being conscious of what is less than ideal on all levels helps us improve our working environment and our processes. We've set two large goals at our company, developer happiness and client happiness. Everyone's job is to fulfill those two goals and part of being happy is not being burnt out! By making vacation mandatory, but with no set limits, and saying you can literally be fired we're signaling to each other the relative importance of being aware of our limits and addressing the importance of moderation. Someone working 60 hours a week is indicative of a severe problem in process, planning, or execution. The same applies for someone going six months without a day off. Does that make sense?
larrys 15y ago
"Isn't it kind of weird to offer those perks – what exactly are is the company hiring for then? Doesn't it come off as lack of focus if employees can do whatever they want?" Think of it this way. If you tell people they can take 10 weeks of vacation they will feel they might take 10 weeks of vacation. If you say "unlimited", well it really doesn't mean unlimited. It forces you to think what is reasonable in your own mind by example of others in the company, what they are taking. Salary employees by definition can take time off, say, for a Dr.'s appointment or really anything (in a traditional company at least) as long as they get their work done. The company doesn't say "you can take off 5 days for x" because then everybody would schedule that time in. Better to leave it an unknown. Most will never hit the max. Many things work this way. When you go to a vacation resort they might have sailboats you can take out. They don't tell you how many times you can take out the sailboat. That prevents people from feeling they are justified in taking the boat out 5 times per day instead of the 1 or maybe two they might if there is no stated limit.

jetti 15y ago

Some of those perks I understand are useful and there to help the employees (such as the unlimited vacation, the catch is that typically you have to be able to finish your work on time). Others, are just clever schemes to make employees stay at work longer and be ok with it. "Doesn't it come off as lack of focus if employees can do whatever they want?" I know I spend some time hashing something out that is unrelated to my job just because it crossed my mind and it is just too awesome not to work on at the moment. The 20% policy just says, "hey it's ok to do that and why don't you show it to us so we can make even more money off your previously non-work related thoughts".

pyoung 15y ago

The 'Unlimited Holiday/Vacation days' particularly bugs me. In a competitive work environment, it is not uncommon for people to go for years without taking a some decent time off (I did that). If it wasn't for our 'use it or lose it' policy (we are allowed to accrue up to twice our yearly amount before we get cutoff), I would probably never go on vacation. I have a feeling that people who work at companies with the unlimited policy probably take fewer vacation days than normal folks, just because no one wants to be 'that guy' who abuses the perk. Anyone have experience with it?

ben1040 15y ago
It struck me that "unlimited vacation days" also seems like a way to make sure that when people quit, you don't have to pay out a vacation dump. And if you have a team of workaholics who never take time off, then those payouts could get big. I worked for a company whose policy was to cap vacation payouts when people left. The employee handbook stated that you'd be paid a maximum of 40 hours vacation unless state law at your work location said otherwise. If you had more than 5 days vacation in your bucket, well, tough luck. Luckily I lived/worked in IL at the time I quit that job, and IL forbids this. When researching that, I noticed there's a disparity among states in terms of how vacation time is treated. Some states treat accrued vacation time as earned compensation that just hasn't yet been paid, and must be paid on termination. Other states treat vacation time as an agreement that you just don't have to come into work and you'll still get paid, and the employer is free to pay out vacation accruals however they like (or not at all). It seems like by providing no defined accruals of vacation time, you step around the whole "earned yet unpaid compensation" and turn time off into an agreement that you won't come in and they will still pay you.
jonathanwallace 15y ago
Yes, I have experience with it and due to the points you raise, we've recently switched from "unlimited vacation" to "mandatory unlimited vacation." Not taking vacation is grounds for dismissal, http://not-so-secret-sauce.highgroove.com/topics/vacation-policy.html http://not-so-secret-sauce.highgroove.com/topics/vacation-po...
- philwelch 14y ago
  At what point do you actually fire people? For instance, if they go like 18 months without vacation, do you literally fire them? Wouldn't it be easier to just grab them and say "hey, next two weeks are on the house, go have some fun and I don't want to see you come into the office or make any commits"?
  - jonathanwallace 14y ago
    Our feedback cycles are much much shorter than 18 months. It would never go that long. We have semi-annual reviews. We also have weekly 1-on-1s and one of the best portions is "what sucks?" This portion of the 1-on-1 is a time to vent about anything and everything no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. Don't like the flavor of free yogurt? Bring it up. Desirous of different snacks? Mention it. Feeling overwhelmed or burnt out? Say so. All of the what sucks from all developers is compiled into one email and sent out along with action items on each issue is being addressed. Being conscious of what is less than ideal on all levels helps us improve our working environment and our processes. We've set two large goals at our company, developer happiness and client happiness. Everyone's job is to fulfill those two goals and part of being happy is not being burnt out! By making vacation mandatory, but with no set limits, and saying you can literally be fired we're signaling to each other the relative importance of being aware of our limits and addressing the importance of moderation. Someone working 60 hours a week is indicative of a severe problem in process, planning, or execution. The same applies for someone going six months without a day off. Does that make sense?

larrys 15y ago

"Isn't it kind of weird to offer those perks – what exactly are is the company hiring for then? Doesn't it come off as lack of focus if employees can do whatever they want?" Think of it this way. If you tell people they can take 10 weeks of vacation they will feel they might take 10 weeks of vacation. If you say "unlimited", well it really doesn't mean unlimited. It forces you to think what is reasonable in your own mind by example of others in the company, what they are taking. Salary employees by definition can take time off, say, for a Dr.'s appointment or really anything (in a traditional company at least) as long as they get their work done. The company doesn't say "you can take off 5 days for x" because then everybody would schedule that time in. Better to leave it an unknown. Most will never hit the max. Many things work this way. When you go to a vacation resort they might have sailboats you can take out. They don't tell you how many times you can take out the sailboat. That prevents people from feeling they are justified in taking the boat out 5 times per day instead of the 1 or maybe two they might if there is no stated limit.