5 ms·

For a desktop without an additional $200-$500 graphics card this is impressive.

by declan_roberts 3y ago

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Not really, since the APUs themselves are historically quite expensive.
- Moto7451 3y ago
  That hasn’t been true for the Zen based models at least. The 5700G and now the 8700G occupy the $350-370 price slot. My comparable 13th gen Intel CPU with lesser graphics was the same price. That’s a great value for a casual gamer. I’m sure at some point we’ll see Intel based APU equivalents on desktop with some teeth. Intel needs to solve their driver issues first.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    > That’s a great value for a casual gamer. It depends. If you're truly performance insensitive and have to buy new, maybe, but these APUs are extremely slow compared to even older, low end discrete GPUs. AM5 is an expensive platform. The total cost of a DDR4 platform is peanuts in comparison.
    - toast0 3y ago
      The cpus are currently significantly more expensive, yes, but is the AM5 platform that much more expensive than AM4? On AM4, pcpartpicker says I can get an A520M board for $70, and 2x16GB DDR4-3600 CL18 for $55; total $125 On AM5, an A620M board is $75, and 2x16GB DDR5-5600 starts at $76; total $151. The real question is where the Microcenter bundle pricing will end up, if you live near a Microcenter.
      - brucethemoose2 3y ago
        Mmm, A620 has come down considerably since I last checked. That's good.
CivBase 3y ago
That price range might have been accurate 7 years ago, but modern graphics cards for gaming range from $300 to $1000 with the highest level pushing $2000 thanks to the AI craze. The higher prices make quality iGPUs all the more relevent - especially since the "gamer" demographic continues growing and many of the most popular games are not particularly demanding.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Platforms, especially AM5, are very expensive too. Ryzen 8000 is far slower than even the slowest new discrete GPU. The real value option is buying an older platform (AM4) and a used discrete GPU, from back when prices were more sane.
  - snvzz 3y ago
    ... if electricity was free. Power efficiency wise, a discrete GPU won't compare favorably.
    - aenis 3y ago
      Dunno if thats true. Assume mid range 200w gpu. Assume 20 eurocents per kWh (I live in the northern europe and pay about as much on a flexible contract). Assume a decent PSU. A year of gaming (assume, very optimistically, 365hrs) is circa 17 eur for the electricity. Considering relative perf differences, I'd say a discrete GPU compares favourably.
      - snvzz 3y ago
        It would be more useful to compare idle power, APU vs chiplet-based CPU + discrete GPU combo.
      - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
        65W TDP for CPU + GPU in power-constrained environments, or when you want to have less battery storage requirements for renewables/backup power, is quite the boon. I had a 5700G (I think) last year and the system would go up to 150W max. I could survive about 2-3h of no electricity with my small inverter battery setup if I kept usage minimal (no work, no gaming). Handy performance wise for a mostly work machine with some indie gaming on the side, but these 8000 series are under half that wattage. Admittedly this isn't the most common need/concern, but it's good to know options are getting better all the time.
GeekyBear 3y ago
A used graphics card good enough to play 1080p games on low settings would not be very expensive at all.
- ozarker 3y ago
  You can find used 1080ti's for like $100 nowadays. I still use one for 1440p gaming and get excellent frames with most games. Kinda mind blowing value
  - readyplayernull 3y ago
    Aren't these the remnants of the Bitcoin gold-rush age?
  - currymj 3y ago
    this GPU was so good at the time that it started cannibalizing sales of higher end data center cards, and Nvidia had to put terms in the EULA for the drivers to try to legally prevent this.
  - thot_experiment 3y ago
    100% 1080Ti is insane value, I have two of them and zero complaints, the 11 gigs of vram make it great for inference as well.
  - vegasje 3y ago
    Please tell me where I can get a used 1080 ti (that works) for $100.
    - artificialLimbs 3y ago
      6 seconds. This one is $90. https://www.ebay.com/itm/375175111524?hash=item575a2de364:g:czcAAOSwHoRlFfxf&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4CfDBpLoWS5RoKT6UqW7fFurw0XKPIB5riyAagGa3sH2Tqdt%2Fk2rqmU6s1AugkDMhFegyFWgIao4R4XqlOt%2FyJxa60BUGkEmYks%2FKD0eVJ%2Bq8efh5MzT3qIiZ82ZD55dIYpAXef09vDjFXHBuq%2BBC19UhxNRbM7qskemyVvnt89zSxWxRye9UOB5fi%2FwDh98YodfZ4LUZ6Yo66%2F0pb6NMfuPQWNlMRDvNQsBLCXGJC48yo6A%2F2wPqLXIZFsWzr4ReSKcJAvGOj0GsngMCRoN3JS6Bc5hf4QLJXjF%2BuRcS6wi%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1rrUwp9j https://www.ebay.com/itm/375175111524?hash=item575a2de364:g:...
ryukoposting 3y ago
I just sold my old GTX 1050 Ti for $35, and it vastly outperforms Vega 11. iGPUs are useful, they just aren't great value for budget gaming PCs (unless we're talking super-duper low budget, where a $50 used GPU is really going to break the bank). HTPC/NAS that's going to run Jackbox at 4K occasionally? Great use case for an R5 with an iGPU.
- sspiff 3y ago
  Why are you comparing to Vega? These new chips have RDNA iGPUs. While I agree that buying a used GPU will be probably net you better performance per dollar, the 1050Ti is significantly slower than the 780M and even 760M and uses significantly more power. Some benchmarks can be seen here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Cjnep8j-o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Cjnep8j-o
  - ryukoposting 3y ago
    A couple reasons: Vega 11 is the best iGPU on a desktop CPU that you can actually buy right now. Preliminary benchmarks on engineering samples are fun to ogle at, but aren't necessarily an accurate representation of the product that will actually land on your local Microcenter's shelves. Then there's the estimated MSRP - only the 8500G's $180 price tag fits the "budget gaming PC" description, and even that's pushing it. You can also buy a better GPU than a 1050Ti for less than $50 used.
bloody-crow 3y ago
Why can't we just acknowledge that "extreme gaming" in a rather absurd term to describe the APU in question? The fact that the performance doesn't suck as much as it used to doesn't make it less absurd. Extreme gaming is close to maxing out currently available performance oriented hardware regardless the cost so unless those APUs can produce results comparable to top of the line CPU paired with something like RTX4090, it doesn't belong with "extreme gaming" in any way.
- ephemeral-life 3y ago
  This type of language is used everywhere in the gaming hardware segment. I think it is kinda tacky, but it has to be working if the entire industry adopted it.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Intel's 2nd generation UMA GPUs, which were branded "Intel Extreme Graphics", were likewise far from extreme.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

For a desktop without an additional $200-$500 graphics card this is impressive.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Not really, since the APUs themselves are historically quite expensive.

Moto7451 3y ago
That hasn’t been true for the Zen based models at least. The 5700G and now the 8700G occupy the $350-370 price slot. My comparable 13th gen Intel CPU with lesser graphics was the same price. That’s a great value for a casual gamer. I’m sure at some point we’ll see Intel based APU equivalents on desktop with some teeth. Intel needs to solve their driver issues first.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  > That’s a great value for a casual gamer. It depends. If you're truly performance insensitive and have to buy new, maybe, but these APUs are extremely slow compared to even older, low end discrete GPUs. AM5 is an expensive platform. The total cost of a DDR4 platform is peanuts in comparison.
  - toast0 3y ago
    The cpus are currently significantly more expensive, yes, but is the AM5 platform that much more expensive than AM4? On AM4, pcpartpicker says I can get an A520M board for $70, and 2x16GB DDR4-3600 CL18 for $55; total $125 On AM5, an A620M board is $75, and 2x16GB DDR5-5600 starts at $76; total $151. The real question is where the Microcenter bundle pricing will end up, if you live near a Microcenter.
    - brucethemoose2 3y ago
      Mmm, A620 has come down considerably since I last checked. That's good.

CivBase 3y ago

That price range might have been accurate 7 years ago, but modern graphics cards for gaming range from $300 to $1000 with the highest level pushing $2000 thanks to the AI craze. The higher prices make quality iGPUs all the more relevent - especially since the "gamer" demographic continues growing and many of the most popular games are not particularly demanding.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Platforms, especially AM5, are very expensive too. Ryzen 8000 is far slower than even the slowest new discrete GPU. The real value option is buying an older platform (AM4) and a used discrete GPU, from back when prices were more sane.
- snvzz 3y ago
  ... if electricity was free. Power efficiency wise, a discrete GPU won't compare favorably.
  - aenis 3y ago
    Dunno if thats true. Assume mid range 200w gpu. Assume 20 eurocents per kWh (I live in the northern europe and pay about as much on a flexible contract). Assume a decent PSU. A year of gaming (assume, very optimistically, 365hrs) is circa 17 eur for the electricity. Considering relative perf differences, I'd say a discrete GPU compares favourably.
    - snvzz 3y ago
      It would be more useful to compare idle power, APU vs chiplet-based CPU + discrete GPU combo.
    - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
      65W TDP for CPU + GPU in power-constrained environments, or when you want to have less battery storage requirements for renewables/backup power, is quite the boon. I had a 5700G (I think) last year and the system would go up to 150W max. I could survive about 2-3h of no electricity with my small inverter battery setup if I kept usage minimal (no work, no gaming). Handy performance wise for a mostly work machine with some indie gaming on the side, but these 8000 series are under half that wattage. Admittedly this isn't the most common need/concern, but it's good to know options are getting better all the time.

GeekyBear 3y ago

A used graphics card good enough to play 1080p games on low settings would not be very expensive at all.

ozarker 3y ago
You can find used 1080ti's for like $100 nowadays. I still use one for 1440p gaming and get excellent frames with most games. Kinda mind blowing value
- readyplayernull 3y ago
  Aren't these the remnants of the Bitcoin gold-rush age?
- currymj 3y ago
  this GPU was so good at the time that it started cannibalizing sales of higher end data center cards, and Nvidia had to put terms in the EULA for the drivers to try to legally prevent this.
- thot_experiment 3y ago
  100% 1080Ti is insane value, I have two of them and zero complaints, the 11 gigs of vram make it great for inference as well.
- vegasje 3y ago
  Please tell me where I can get a used 1080 ti (that works) for $100.
  - artificialLimbs 3y ago
    6 seconds. This one is $90. https://www.ebay.com/itm/375175111524?hash=item575a2de364:g:czcAAOSwHoRlFfxf&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4CfDBpLoWS5RoKT6UqW7fFurw0XKPIB5riyAagGa3sH2Tqdt%2Fk2rqmU6s1AugkDMhFegyFWgIao4R4XqlOt%2FyJxa60BUGkEmYks%2FKD0eVJ%2Bq8efh5MzT3qIiZ82ZD55dIYpAXef09vDjFXHBuq%2BBC19UhxNRbM7qskemyVvnt89zSxWxRye9UOB5fi%2FwDh98YodfZ4LUZ6Yo66%2F0pb6NMfuPQWNlMRDvNQsBLCXGJC48yo6A%2F2wPqLXIZFsWzr4ReSKcJAvGOj0GsngMCRoN3JS6Bc5hf4QLJXjF%2BuRcS6wi%7Ctkp%3ABFBM1rrUwp9j https://www.ebay.com/itm/375175111524?hash=item575a2de364:g:...

ryukoposting 3y ago

I just sold my old GTX 1050 Ti for $35, and it vastly outperforms Vega 11. iGPUs are useful, they just aren't great value for budget gaming PCs (unless we're talking super-duper low budget, where a $50 used GPU is really going to break the bank). HTPC/NAS that's going to run Jackbox at 4K occasionally? Great use case for an R5 with an iGPU.

sspiff 3y ago
Why are you comparing to Vega? These new chips have RDNA iGPUs. While I agree that buying a used GPU will be probably net you better performance per dollar, the 1050Ti is significantly slower than the 780M and even 760M and uses significantly more power. Some benchmarks can be seen here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Cjnep8j-o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Cjnep8j-o
- ryukoposting 3y ago
  A couple reasons: Vega 11 is the best iGPU on a desktop CPU that you can actually buy right now. Preliminary benchmarks on engineering samples are fun to ogle at, but aren't necessarily an accurate representation of the product that will actually land on your local Microcenter's shelves. Then there's the estimated MSRP - only the 8500G's $180 price tag fits the "budget gaming PC" description, and even that's pushing it. You can also buy a better GPU than a 1050Ti for less than $50 used.

bloody-crow 3y ago

Why can't we just acknowledge that "extreme gaming" in a rather absurd term to describe the APU in question? The fact that the performance doesn't suck as much as it used to doesn't make it less absurd. Extreme gaming is close to maxing out currently available performance oriented hardware regardless the cost so unless those APUs can produce results comparable to top of the line CPU paired with something like RTX4090, it doesn't belong with "extreme gaming" in any way.

ephemeral-life 3y ago
This type of language is used everywhere in the gaming hardware segment. I think it is kinda tacky, but it has to be working if the entire industry adopted it.
userbinator 3y ago
Intel's 2nd generation UMA GPUs, which were branded "Intel Extreme Graphics", were likewise far from extreme.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]