6 ms·

Could you give an example of one of the laws? This is new to me too

by egillie 14y ago

Alex3917 14y ago
If I remember correctly there were many laws specifying that men were to be paid less than women and were to be subject to other degrading treatment. It's hard to find a good example of an actual law though because until recently virtually all states regulated education at the local level.
- egillie 14y ago
  Do you remember the name of one of the books? I found some evidence of the opposite happening to attract men to the profession in OK, but I can easily believe that what you described happened in other states. And it's a pretty infuriating idea... To quote Steinem: “there are very few jobs that actually require a penis or a vagina, and all the other jobs should be open to both sexes.
  - Alex3917 14y ago
    I found one cite from Gatto, which is probably where I heard it: "Between 1840 and 1860, male schoolteachers were cleansed from the Massachusetts system and replaced by women. A variety of methods was used, including the novel one of paying women slightly more than men in order to bring shame into play in chasing men out of the business. Again, the move was part of a well-conceived strategy: "Experience teaches that these boys, many of whom never had a mother’s affection...need the softening and refining influence which woman alone can give, and we have, wherever practicable, substituted female officers and teachers for those of the other sex." http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6i.htm http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6i.htm Unfortunately he doesn't cite any of his sources because he wants you to look into the issues for yourselves. Every time I've fact checked him he's always been right or at least close enough, but the problem is with claims like this there aren't even really any hints as to where to look.
    - egillie 14y ago
      Thanks! Also: "A state report noted the frequency with which parents coming to retrieve their own children from reform school were met by news their children had been given away to others". I had no idea....
    - gruseom 14y ago
      Google Books picks up the source for the quote, at least. http://books.google.ca/books?id=7irAXGiBBoQC&lpg=RA1-PA8&ots=cXuBMPM0AR&dq=need%20the%20softening%20and%20refining%20influence%20which%20woman%20alone%20can%20give&pg=RA1-PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.ca/books?id=7irAXGiBBoQC&lpg=RA1-PA8...
  - dgabriel 14y ago
    Until the 1840s, teachers were primarily men. I trust PBS pretty thoroughly. http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/timeline.html http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/timeline.html
    - egillie 14y ago
      For sure, the demographics weren't in question, I was more trying to find out whether there were any state-imposed reasons. That article points out a lot of great social causes, though.
      - dgabriel 14y ago
        I don't know. I just wanted to add at least one actual source to the conversation... Social norms change, though, and this is actually an excellent example of a huge shift.

Could you give an example of one of the laws? This is new to me too

by egillie 14y ago

Could you give an example of one of the laws? This is new to me too

If I remember correctly there were many laws specifying that men were to be paid less than women and were to be subject to other degrading treatment. It's hard to find a good example of an actual law though because until recently virtually all states regulated education at the local level.

egillie 14y ago
Do you remember the name of one of the books? I found some evidence of the opposite happening to attract men to the profession in OK, but I can easily believe that what you described happened in other states. And it's a pretty infuriating idea... To quote Steinem: “there are very few jobs that actually require a penis or a vagina, and all the other jobs should be open to both sexes.
- Alex3917 14y ago
  I found one cite from Gatto, which is probably where I heard it: "Between 1840 and 1860, male schoolteachers were cleansed from the Massachusetts system and replaced by women. A variety of methods was used, including the novel one of paying women slightly more than men in order to bring shame into play in chasing men out of the business. Again, the move was part of a well-conceived strategy: "Experience teaches that these boys, many of whom never had a mother’s affection...need the softening and refining influence which woman alone can give, and we have, wherever practicable, substituted female officers and teachers for those of the other sex." http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6i.htm http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6i.htm Unfortunately he doesn't cite any of his sources because he wants you to look into the issues for yourselves. Every time I've fact checked him he's always been right or at least close enough, but the problem is with claims like this there aren't even really any hints as to where to look.
  - egillie 14y ago
    Thanks! Also: "A state report noted the frequency with which parents coming to retrieve their own children from reform school were met by news their children had been given away to others". I had no idea....
  - gruseom 14y ago
    Google Books picks up the source for the quote, at least. http://books.google.ca/books?id=7irAXGiBBoQC&lpg=RA1-PA8&ots=cXuBMPM0AR&dq=need%20the%20softening%20and%20refining%20influence%20which%20woman%20alone%20can%20give&pg=RA1-PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.ca/books?id=7irAXGiBBoQC&lpg=RA1-PA8...
- dgabriel 14y ago
  Until the 1840s, teachers were primarily men. I trust PBS pretty thoroughly. http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/timeline.html http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/timeline.html
  - egillie 14y ago
    For sure, the demographics weren't in question, I was more trying to find out whether there were any state-imposed reasons. That article points out a lot of great social causes, though.
    - dgabriel 14y ago
      I don't know. I just wanted to add at least one actual source to the conversation... Social norms change, though, and this is actually an excellent example of a huge shift.