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> It's also really hard to sell even a luxury sedan as an upgrade when everyone wants an SUV I don't want an SUV. I get angry at rental companies when they try

> It's also really hard to sell even a luxury sedan as an upgrade when everyone wants an SUV I don't want an SUV. I get angry at rental companies when they try to give me one. I increasingly don't recognize this country I grew up in with the car culture. In the early 90s nobody wanted SUVs either. The truck and SUV craze was apparently sparked by an emissions regulatory loophole, where larger vehicles were excempt because they were meant for work.

bluGill 3y ago
Unfortunately people who like small cars are a minority. Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. (come to think of it, even though I prefer small cars I drive a large truck because once in a while I need a truck and I don't drive enough to justify two vehicles)
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  > Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. The only thing I can think of is to emphasize their superior fuel economy and get people to appreciate the superior handling. Make people drive an obstacle avoidance course in both a small car and a huge SUV. Maybe some people would accept that the safer car doesn't have to be the bigger car, but the one with enough agility and stability to avoid it completely.
  - RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
    I would guess that for the most part safety is more of a function of attention and driving safely and predictably rather than relying on the superior handling to get out of scrapes. Many times people that prize handling of the car end up pushing the limits and driving dangerously aggressively accelerating and braking, following closely, aggressively lane swerving.
jdp23 3y ago
Yep. When I get upgraded to an SUV I exchange it for something along the lines of the car I had originally reserved. I've asked them to put something in my file saying "don't upgrade to SUV" but it appears beyond the capabilities of their system.
GuB-42 3y ago
My own car is a compact, and I would rent a SUV or other large vehicle for that exact reason. Sometimes, rarely, I need a big car, I don't have one, that's what rental is for. When travelling, I tend to prefer public transport, except when in a group or when I need to carry a lot of stuff, and again, for that I need a big car. And not an EV. EVs are ideal when you can charge at home. When renting a car, it usually means I don't have a "home", and planning for charging points in a place you are not familiar with is a hassle. And EVs are not ideal for road trips where each leg typically exceeds the maximum range. So yeah, I understand why rentals would be dominated by large gas cars and trucks.
- bombcar 3y ago
  A nice "feature" for rental EVs would be hot-swap - driving around and your rented Model 3 is a bit low on charge? Bring it by any of the rental locations and be off in another one fully charged in minutes.
legitster 3y ago
SUVs are popular because of the death of car culture. Car enthusiasts still like small sedans with handling and looks and etc. But the average person just wants the biggest, most comfortable car they can get for the money. I had a millenial co-worker ask me why selling a 2-door car was even legal these days.
- smileysteve 3y ago
  > But the average person just wants the biggest, most comfortable car They want the biggest, because it makes them feel comfortable, despite objective data and car parts that SUVs are more dangerous and less comfortable. One theory is that millennials have been taught that higher and bigger is better because of age related vision deterioration by their parents and it has now caught on. Anecdotally, I asked this line of questioning recently of family that had the choice of a 20 hour road trip - 2 people in (solid rear axle) Cadillac Escalade versus a similar year Mercedes Mid Size SUV. The reasoning given was comfort. But objectively, the mid size has independent rear suspension, more responsive steering, quicker pickup, lower weight (and better center of gravity), lower miles, fewer maintenance issues, fits in more parking spaces, is not as tall to get into comfortably, better fuel economy, and more comfortable seating. The conclusion that the extra large SUV is more comfortable perplexes me.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    1) bad drivers like being seated high and this helps when overloaded with information; and bad as beginner, constantly bad or just age-related 2) cargo cult culture in literally everything these days, including what some less-than-bright footballer buys for a car (or some famous dev or company uses for building their products), so these 'suv' are seen as luxury, and not garbage dump of companies making real cars (TM) like BMW. Severe rolling risk, slow reaction times and generally just a bad drive thanx to basic physics, high consumption and overall maintenance... not that great a choice for many
  - legitster 3y ago
    Well, the simple truth is that the best, most versatile car on the road is a minivan. But no one wants to admit that so everyone pretends they like SUVs despite being worse in almost every way for daily driving.
bombcar 3y ago
The term "SUV" has changed tremendously, when I was younger an SUV was a Suburban or maybe the smaller Bronco - barely would apply to a Jeep. Modern "compact" or "crossover" SUVs are just hatchback cars. Some are quite small, they're just named differently to make people buy them. The real loser has been minivans, station wagons, and actual hatchbacks. There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. Tesla Model 3 length: 185.8″ Volkswagen Taos length: 175.8″
- kube-system 3y ago
  > There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. This is a popular opinion, but there are still advantages to a sedan. e.g. driving dynamics, weight and aerodynamics and therefore fuel economy, price, etc. It's just that many buyers don't prioritize these things.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Sadly, we have so many cars available, but rarely can you find the exact combination you want, so you have to choose something to give way. Most buyers only really compare efficiency after narrowing down other things they deem "irreplaceable". USED buyers, of course, are much more flexible because the main thing they care about is price. But nobody builds used vehicles, only new ones.
- kelnos 3y ago
  > There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. Sure there is, fuel efficiency being one. Also I just do not at all like driving SUVs. I like to be closer to the road, and sedans just feel more stable to me. The proliferation of SUVs is so profoundly disappointing.
drewzero1 3y ago
It baffles me... When I'm driving in an unfamiliar place, the last thing I want to be driving is a lumbering beast that is longer and wider than what I'm used to.
njarboe 3y ago
The emission loophole is part of the reason but the main one, I believe, is that the US vehicle manufacturers have used a boat load of advertising and other methods to convince people, over the last 60 years, to buy trucks and then SUVs due to the 25% "Chicken Tax"[1] that was imposed on truck imports starting in 1964. Trucks were some much more profitable because they did not need to compete with imports. Ford recently has stopped selling all cars but the Mustang in the US. This tax remains in effect to this day with that trade war a distant memory. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
kelnos 3y ago
> I don't want an SUV. I get angry at rental companies when they try to give me one. Same, but I think the GP is correct to say that most people do want an SUV, in the US, at least.

bluGill 3y ago

Unfortunately people who like small cars are a minority. Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. (come to think of it, even though I prefer small cars I drive a large truck because once in a while I need a truck and I don't drive enough to justify two vehicles)

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
> Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. The only thing I can think of is to emphasize their superior fuel economy and get people to appreciate the superior handling. Make people drive an obstacle avoidance course in both a small car and a huge SUV. Maybe some people would accept that the safer car doesn't have to be the bigger car, but the one with enough agility and stability to avoid it completely.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
  I would guess that for the most part safety is more of a function of attention and driving safely and predictably rather than relying on the superior handling to get out of scrapes. Many times people that prize handling of the car end up pushing the limits and driving dangerously aggressively accelerating and braking, following closely, aggressively lane swerving.

jdp23 3y ago

Yep. When I get upgraded to an SUV I exchange it for something along the lines of the car I had originally reserved. I've asked them to put something in my file saying "don't upgrade to SUV" but it appears beyond the capabilities of their system.

GuB-42 3y ago

My own car is a compact, and I would rent a SUV or other large vehicle for that exact reason. Sometimes, rarely, I need a big car, I don't have one, that's what rental is for. When travelling, I tend to prefer public transport, except when in a group or when I need to carry a lot of stuff, and again, for that I need a big car. And not an EV. EVs are ideal when you can charge at home. When renting a car, it usually means I don't have a "home", and planning for charging points in a place you are not familiar with is a hassle. And EVs are not ideal for road trips where each leg typically exceeds the maximum range. So yeah, I understand why rentals would be dominated by large gas cars and trucks.

bombcar 3y ago
A nice "feature" for rental EVs would be hot-swap - driving around and your rented Model 3 is a bit low on charge? Bring it by any of the rental locations and be off in another one fully charged in minutes.

legitster 3y ago

SUVs are popular because of the death of car culture. Car enthusiasts still like small sedans with handling and looks and etc. But the average person just wants the biggest, most comfortable car they can get for the money. I had a millenial co-worker ask me why selling a 2-door car was even legal these days.

smileysteve 3y ago
> But the average person just wants the biggest, most comfortable car They want the biggest, because it makes them feel comfortable, despite objective data and car parts that SUVs are more dangerous and less comfortable. One theory is that millennials have been taught that higher and bigger is better because of age related vision deterioration by their parents and it has now caught on. Anecdotally, I asked this line of questioning recently of family that had the choice of a 20 hour road trip - 2 people in (solid rear axle) Cadillac Escalade versus a similar year Mercedes Mid Size SUV. The reasoning given was comfort. But objectively, the mid size has independent rear suspension, more responsive steering, quicker pickup, lower weight (and better center of gravity), lower miles, fewer maintenance issues, fits in more parking spaces, is not as tall to get into comfortably, better fuel economy, and more comfortable seating. The conclusion that the extra large SUV is more comfortable perplexes me.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  1) bad drivers like being seated high and this helps when overloaded with information; and bad as beginner, constantly bad or just age-related 2) cargo cult culture in literally everything these days, including what some less-than-bright footballer buys for a car (or some famous dev or company uses for building their products), so these 'suv' are seen as luxury, and not garbage dump of companies making real cars (TM) like BMW. Severe rolling risk, slow reaction times and generally just a bad drive thanx to basic physics, high consumption and overall maintenance... not that great a choice for many
- legitster 3y ago
  Well, the simple truth is that the best, most versatile car on the road is a minivan. But no one wants to admit that so everyone pretends they like SUVs despite being worse in almost every way for daily driving.

bombcar 3y ago

The term "SUV" has changed tremendously, when I was younger an SUV was a Suburban or maybe the smaller Bronco - barely would apply to a Jeep. Modern "compact" or "crossover" SUVs are just hatchback cars. Some are quite small, they're just named differently to make people buy them. The real loser has been minivans, station wagons, and actual hatchbacks. There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. Tesla Model 3 length: 185.8″ Volkswagen Taos length: 175.8″

kube-system 3y ago
> There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. This is a popular opinion, but there are still advantages to a sedan. e.g. driving dynamics, weight and aerodynamics and therefore fuel economy, price, etc. It's just that many buyers don't prioritize these things.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Sadly, we have so many cars available, but rarely can you find the exact combination you want, so you have to choose something to give way. Most buyers only really compare efficiency after narrowing down other things they deem "irreplaceable". USED buyers, of course, are much more flexible because the main thing they care about is price. But nobody builds used vehicles, only new ones.
kelnos 3y ago
> There's no reason to buy a sedan when on the same footprint you can get an SUV with more room. Sure there is, fuel efficiency being one. Also I just do not at all like driving SUVs. I like to be closer to the road, and sedans just feel more stable to me. The proliferation of SUVs is so profoundly disappointing.

drewzero1 3y ago

It baffles me... When I'm driving in an unfamiliar place, the last thing I want to be driving is a lumbering beast that is longer and wider than what I'm used to.

njarboe 3y ago

The emission loophole is part of the reason but the main one, I believe, is that the US vehicle manufacturers have used a boat load of advertising and other methods to convince people, over the last 60 years, to buy trucks and then SUVs due to the 25% "Chicken Tax"[1] that was imposed on truck imports starting in 1964. Trucks were some much more profitable because they did not need to compete with imports. Ford recently has stopped selling all cars but the Mustang in the US. This tax remains in effect to this day with that trade war a distant memory. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

kelnos 3y ago

> I don't want an SUV. I get angry at rental companies when they try to give me one. Same, but I think the GP is correct to say that most people do want an SUV, in the US, at least.